We will buy a Yaya replacement in the summer and someone who can rotate with Fernandinho is the same way Gundogan and Bernardo have this season.
Weigl and Fred have been linked quite a bit recently.
The more I respond in a his thread, the more it sounds like I don't rate Dihno. That is far from the case. I just don't think his skillset are unique. They aren't.You will know how special Fernandinho is when he leave the team.
They way he press and being in the right place at the right time is not easy.
They way he keep the ball under pressure, the ability to spread pin point passes from the back ( He is creating scoring opportunities almost every game )
Yaya was replaced by new system and not new player, he used to be the creative spark from the middle but now Pep converted Silva and KDB to CM/CAM to create the build up from the middle.
With Fernandinho Pep is not going to change the system, he will need similar player.
I'm with you. I love the guy, and I'm not interested in trading him for anyone. But if we can find a way to get over Touré and Kompany then logically there's no reason why Fernandinho can't be replaced.The more I respond in a his thread, the more it sounds like I don't rate Dihno. That is far from the case. I just don't think his skillset are unique. They aren't.
By the way, keeping the ball under pressure isn't one of his strength. He is deceptively more skillful than you'd think. Has better vision than he gets credit for. His pressure is good, but not special. He's tackling is okay, His reading and effort are great. His one touch pass, comes and goes. His movement when we are in possession is average. He has a very good shot on him.
He is having a great season. But I also saw him last season. When most thought he needed replacing. That Fernandihno from last season is the average Dihno without the knowledge of the system.
I know folks like saying he is underrated. Actually this has become an euphemism for "he plays dm", I can't recall any good DM that this isn't said about.
As if football fans are oblivious to what a DM does. We aren't. I know what DMs do. And Dihno is a good one, perhaps the best in the league this season. But his skillset are not unique or special. They just aren't.
I think a problem may stem from people thinking about like for likes. There's no player out there that can do what Fernandinho can do better than Fernandinho, probably. But Delph can't do what Mendy can do, and we've done well enough. When Fernandinho does go, we'll hopefully just get an equally good, albeit different player.
I think the mistake is hoping the skillset is exactly like Dihno's doesn't have to be. Here is a preliminary list of players I think can all comfortably take over from Dihno if given 1 year in the system.Well i think we actually want a Dm that is quite close to the skillset of Fern. There are certaintly various types of Dm, wether they are more defensive oriented or attack oriented or specialised in the passing game. Fern has a certain combination of skills that seem very usefull to us imho, this being a combination of defensive skill, skill going forward, passing abbilety and vision, and last but certaintly not least athleticism. I think that skillset is pretty much perfect for us, there are definatly more defensive oriented DM's out there with less going forward but Fern is good enough at defense an we value that skill going forward. His passing abbilety and vision gets near the level of a defensive playmaker and obviously given our passing and possesion focused style thats very important for us too. And with our pressign game and the amount of players going forward we need a rather athletic DM that can cover a lot of ground and can keep up with faster players on the counter.
Finding that similar skillset at similar level is not too hard in Europe, i think there are about 2 dozen players that can match him in skillset and quality of it. What i don't find is any player that is exceptionally above that of Ferns skills, the few dozen alternatives i could find all tend to have been picked up by top clubs. So yes Fern's skills are not so unique, you will find simmilarly good Dm's of his type playing for the likes of Juventus, PSG, Roma, Napoli or Milan. Problem is, most of those teams will unlikely want to sell.
best prospect i could find on FM was a certain "Thiago Maia", a 20 year old Brazilian that just recently moved to Lille for about 14 milllion euros. He would still need to evolve but perhaps he could become better than Fern.
I think the mistake is hoping the skillset is exactly like Dihno's doesn't have to be. Here is a preliminary list of players I think can all comfortably take over from Dihno if given 1 year in the system.
Was wondering if Delph who is about 4 yrs younger could fill that gap for a few seasons.
Such an underrated player. Does so much mopping up work without much notice. A bit like Barry but with more mobility. Love the guy to bits. But he is now 32 and can't last forever despite being very fit and having a good injury record. For me he is the most difficult player in the first team to replace. Yaya sadly not up to it anymore. Was wondering if Delph who is about 4 yrs younger could fill that gap for a few seasons.
Firstly I don't think Delph can fill the gap - brilliant as a stand in left back, he lacks a couple of key ingredients to be the fulcrum of our midfield. Mainly he lacks the instinct of when to release the ball. Fernandinho and similar players seem to know when to pass and also when to move into space. Sadly Delph, as good as he's been, doesn't have this and often holds onto the ball for far too long which negates space for others to work in and, if we lose the ball, results in him being out of position and scrambling back. In my opinion, the way we play now, Fernandinho despite being 32, has another 2-3 years at current levels - I think when Yaya was playing alongside him he had to do far too much extra work - this year we are seeing Kev cover so much ground as a direct comparison to Yaya (since 2014). In fact moving Kev from out wide, and adding the work rate of others - will definitely prolong Fernandinho's career. Pep knows this and I think we have seen a massive change in everyone's work rate. Long winded way of saying we are not carrying anyone.
Fernandinho will be replaced and I think looking at his current fitness and form it will buy us next season to allow someone younger to bed in. Similar to David's form allowing Bernardo to take his time to adjust to the PL and our system - Pep is one clever manager!
I'm guessing FM generally mimics what they are partly based on where they currently play. Mario, De Jong and Barrella are all CM/AM so it makes sense FM doesn't rate them defensively.It's impossible afcourse to find a perfect copy, but anyways. You took the effort to compile the list least i can do is to cover them all. Mind that i'm looking at it from Fm, i havn't seen any games of most of these players, so it's a superficial impression to take with a grain of salt as reality might be different, i leave it to you to educate me where Fm might fall short
Savic: looks more like a ball playing defender, doesn't have so much going forward by the stats
Wiegl: couldn't find back at first, but i think you meant Weigl who is a DM for dortmund. looks like a promesing youngster but would fall short for us at this age imho, not quite there yet but one day he likely will
Fabihno: Looks very good to be fair, practily perfect replacement at young age
Llorente: not enough going forward imho, again more a ball playing defender
Torreira: couldn't find him back in Fm
Lemina: looks very good and is young, but is Juventus going to sell?
Arthur Melo: another good find at a young age
Frenkie de jong: just not a defensive midfielder imho, doesn't have what it needs in defense
Jaoa Mario: more an attacking midfielder, doesn't seem to have the required defensive skill
Nicolo barella: another one that woudl lack the defensive skill
the 3 players above are also very young, they could become different players and perhaps work on defensive skill, though i deffinatly don't see de jong ever become a good DM.
Mikel Merino: looks good, he seems to trade off a bit of defensive skill for being a better passer but that seems ok, he's fairly young too.
Fred: looks ok, but perhaps more a player for a somewhat more forward position or perhaps even the wings, think Pep would have fun with him since he seems 2 footed and skillfull enough to even play as fullback, perhaps you could train him practicly every position on the pitch and then have him as a superb option on the bench.
All in all, i have to grant it to you for atleast providing a few good options we could go for strait away and who are at an interresting age. Fabinho, Lemina, Merino and Melo look quite interresting and likely available besides that they are fairly young still. And if Fred isn't too expensive perhaps we could buy him as a toy for Pep, he might become our second Delph.
I'm guessing FM generally mimics what they are partly based on where they currently play. Mario, De Jong and Barrella are all CM/AM so it makes sense FM doesn't rate them defensively.
But in the last month or so De Jong has been started at CB. Which tells me there is a manager somewhere who trusts his defensive capabilities.
Any viewing of his game easily shows his calmness under pressure, his passing range and his great vision and movement. If he continues to play and excel at CB then the projection to DM on a passing team is easy.
Joao Mario is in my eye Dihno with a little more acceleration and attacking vision. Slightly less athletic and defensive (coz he seldom plays DM) but I'm sure he'd take to it like duck to water, or better yet like Delph to Leftback. Same with Barrella.
As for Torreira, he plays CM/DM for Sampdoria
Correction, Mario is slightly less athletic and also less defensive (poor phrasing on my part). But in fairness, I think Mario can be every bit as defensive if played in the position. He is aggressive and explosive kinda like Dihno.Yes on most of that, but not just slightly less defensive, the difference seems big enough. Same with Barella. I really wonder why we would want to sacrifice on defensive skill with a replacement to begin with. These players look like more natural CM's where defensive skill matters somewhat but where it doesn't need be so high as like with a DM.
Found him, he looks like a good pick.
Correction, Mario is slightly less athletic and also less defensive (poor phrasing on my part). But in fairness, I think Mario can be every bit as defensive if played in the position. He is aggressive and explosive kinda like Dihno.
I mean, it takes a bit of imagination but I can see it :)
Judging him on having to cover for Yaya, Clichy, Kolorov, Stones, and Otamendi last season is wrong imho, he was often found doing 2 or 3 peoples jobs as well as his own. With the right people around him he looks the player he is, and what's more he makes it look effortless. I don't think he will need replacing for 2 or 3 years either, as his fitness levels are so high. Need to bring in his successor soon, so that he can learn from a master.I just don't think he is uniquely special. Clearly the system has made him look great. He's always been a very good player... He he isn't so special that he'd be hard to replace. Why do I believe this?
Simples. Watch Dihno from last season. He wasnt half this good. So clearly learning the system helped his game. There are equally talented players who can do the same.
People like to say this but its just not true. Yaya wasn't there for half the season ( so the Yaya excuse doesn't fly).Judging him on having to cover for Yaya, Clichy, Kolorov, Stones, and Otamendi last season is wrong imho, he was often found doing 2 or 3 peoples jobs as well as his own. With the right people around him he looks the player he is, and what's more he makes it look effortless. I don't think he will need replacing for 2 or 3 years either, as his fitness levels are so high. Need to bring in his successor soon, so that he can learn from a master.
I can't really be bothered to disagree, because I watched him regularly chase about covering others faults from my seat in the South Stand, if you didn't fair enough, but I said it many times last year too, its not something I just made up today. He also had to actually play both right and left back in games last year, so was not always in his natural position.People like to say this but its just false. Yaya wasn't there for half the season ( so the Yaya excuse doesn't fly).
He simply wasn't very good because like everyone else he was learning the new system.f I appreciate many would try to rewrite history but it has little to do with others.
Its the standard excuse for not blaming players folks like. "He was covering for others."
Fernandihno often made a mess of his own job often. Fouled unnecessarily. Was late to tackles, and just liked the others went thru the growing pain of learning the system.
Yes, others pressing better has ebased his job. Just like him getting better in possession has eased the jobs of others. Its all symbiotic.
The front 5 press more which makes the defensive jobs of the back 5 easier. The back 5 improve their possession and control which conserves the energy of the front 5 and makes them more able to press efficiently the few times we don't have it.
This makes everyone better. Including Fernandihno
Ok. CoolI can't really be bothered to disagree, because I watched him regularly chase about covering others faults from my seat in the South Stand, if you didn't fair enough, but I said it many times last year too, its not something I just made up today. He also had to actually play both right and left back in games last year, so was not always in his natural position.
Yes, others were also learning a new way to play, and have, but others really weren't ever up to playing that way, and they've mostly gone, or they don't play regularly now. Stones and Otamendi were also hampered by not being able to rely on Vinny, and so couldn't be rotated enough, plus had the same deficiencies either side of them defensively.
Fernandhino is a special player, and we're seeing why this year, now he only has to do his job, not half the team's, he'll probably one of the first names on the team sheet for Brazil at the world cup, though I'm not sure he'll be as free to play his game for them.