VAR (PL introduction 2019)

pudge said:
The standard has to improve as well because not every team will have the use of VAR. Football and poor officiating exists outside the Premier League. Just because City vs United will have it doesn't excuse that Southend vs S****horpe won't. So why is it fair to them?... it's not. So the standard of refereeing need's tackled and addressed at all levels because not every level will have VAR.
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Well they won't have it in pub leagues either, is that a serious reason not to implement it initially in the PL? It's the PL that has the most money floating around, the most money wagered on it and hence is the most open to corruption and is the league most in need of VAR in this country. There is a clear case for starting with VAR at the top and working its way down over time. And tbh the idea that the game was the same one played at all levels went out of the window once live TV coverage of the top flight became widespread - were you against retrospective action based on TV footage being used to punish players for bad fouls?

It's not a magic bullet for curing poor officiating but it will clearly ensure that fewer poor decisions are allowed to stand and that can only be a good thing.
 
lancs blue said:
Well they won't have it in pub leagues either, is that a serious reason not to implement it initially in the PL? It's the PL that has the most money floating around, the most money wagered on it and hence is the most open to corruption and is the league most in need of VAR in this country. There is a clear case for starting with VAR at the top and working its way down over time. And tbh the idea that the game was the same one played at all levels went out of the window once live TV coverage of the top flight became widespread - were you against retrospective action based on TV footage being used to punish players for bad fouls?

It's not a magic bullet for curing poor officiating but it will clearly ensure that fewer poor decisions are allowed to stand and that can only be a good thing.
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They're not comparable. Off the ball incidents can't always be seen by officials and so aren't a direct result of poor officiating.

Also, I'm not even against VAR.

Your pub team comment is ludicrous to be fair. If teams can compete against each other in any competition, they should all receive or not receive the same advantages. The point made by the previous poster was that the standard of officials won't improve and why bother trying anyway. It should be addressed because some officials won't have the numerous technological advantages as others.

So to think it doesn't matter how bad a ref is because VAR will fix thier mistakes isn't true.
 
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pudge said:
If teams can compete against each other in any competition, they should all receive or not receive the same advantages.
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When they do play in the same competition, I agree that is the only fair way to implement it. But that shouldn't preclude it being implemented throughout a division of a league because there is no impact on the divisions without VAR.
 
lancs blue said:
When they do play in the same competition, I agree that is the only fair way to implement it. But that shouldn't preclude it being implemented throughout a division of a league because there is no impact on the divisions without VAR.
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But the fact they can't implement it in every league is why addressing the issue (the abysmal standard of officiating) should be paramount. Because VAR can't fix wrongful decisions in every game.

Is my point on that matter.
 
lancs blue said:
But that isn't a reason for not using VAR!!
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I'm not against using it.

I'm against them implementing it before they tackle the bigger issues within officiating.

VAR shouldn't be first on the list of problem solving solutions. It should be on there though.
 
pudge said:
I'm not against using it.

I'm against them implementing it before they tackle the bigger issues within officiating.

VAR shouldn't be first on the list of problem solving solutions. It should be on there though.
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First of all the premise that referees at lower levels are even worse than the ones operating in the PL is flawed IMO. I suspect that ref appointments to the PL list are too often a case of who you know at PGMOL rather than down purely to ability, the absence of English refs at the World Cup would seem to support this view. So I disagree that we can't start clearing the mess up from the top down by using VAR in the PL. Implementing VAR in the PL doesn't mean doing nothing about the generally poor standard of officiating.
 
lancs blue said:
First of all the premise that referees at lower levels are even worse than the ones operating in the PL is flawed IMO. I suspect that ref appointments to the PL list are too often a case of who you know at PGMOL rather than down purely to ability, the absence of English refs at the World Cup would seem to support this view. So I disagree that we can't start clearing the mess up from the top down by using VAR in the PL. Implementing VAR in the PL doesn't mean doing nothing about the generally poor standard of officiating.
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I'm not saying referees at lower levels are inherently worse. Just that the overall standard of officiating is bad and getting worse.

We want to get to a point where VAR is rarely used or at least rarely overrides a decision.

Simply giving officials VAR won't do that if it's not at least coupled with other methods of directly improving them as referees.

It doesn't stop bad calls from happening, it may get the decision right or it could even blur the lines of subjectivity even more so, but it doesn't improve the officials.

Again, you want VAR as a last resort to correct the odd decision, not as a safety net that officials abuse. That won't happen if it's the only implemented method of tackling the continued amount of bad decisions being made in general.

Accountability must be at the forefront of it.
 
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pudge said:
I'm not saying referees at lower levels are inherently worse. Just that the overall standard of officiating is bad and getting worse.

We want to get to a point where VAR is rarely used or at least rarely overrides a decision.

Simply giving officials VAR won't do that if it's not at least coupled with other methods of directly improving them as referees.

It doesn't stop bad calls from happening, it may get the decision right or it could even blur the lines of subjectivity even more so, but it doesn't improve the officials.

Again, you want VAR as a last resort to correct the odd decision, not as a safety net that officials abuse. That won't happen if it's the only implemented method of tackling the continued amount of bad decisions being made in general.
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But poor officiating needs to be tackled in a number of different ways and I see VAR as one of those methods so we may as well make a start now that the tech is available, I honestly don't see why you wouldn't want bad decisions overturned where possible. Improving the training and selection of officials is a root and branch operation that could take many years to bear fruit, why allow bad decisions to continue to stand when we can do something about them now at the top level (and in a few years in the lower divisions as well as the tech filters down)?
 
lancs blue said:
But poor officiating needs to be tackled in a number of different ways and I see VAR as one of those methods so we may as well make a start now that the tech is available, I honestly don't see why you wouldn't want bad decisions overturned where possible. Improving the training and selection of officials is a root and branch operation that could take many years to bear fruit, why allow bad decisions to continue to stand when we can do something about them now at the top level (and in a few years in the lower divisions as well as the tech filters down)?
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Officials don't need more training, more respect etc or the appointment process to be more discerning. They need to be held accountable.

That doesn't take years, it should already be in place but isn't.

The level of complacency and arrogance that stems from knowing you can be as inept as humanely possible and still retain your job is undeniably staggering.

If you introduce VAR, then introduce more measures to tackle the root of the problem. Otherwise what's the point? Just do away with officials on the pitch.

Of course everyone wants the right decisions made in the end but you should also want the right decisions made in the first place and VAR doesn't do that so why should it be the priority and first and only port of call for a solution.

The potential methods that could address the problems don't take too long to implement and at the very least should be brought in alongside it; despite being easily addressed long before.
 
VAR - There will be a massive increase in players jumping to the floor at corners when this thing kicks in. Still can't get that Salah dive when he got touched on the shoulder out of my head.
In theory, he touched him, reality, Salah massive dive and should have been booked.
There will be carnage, with penalties galore in each match.
Practice your pen's lads, there's going to be lots
 
pudge said:
Officials don't need more training, more respect etc or the appointment process to be more discerning. They need to be held accountable.

That doesn't take years, it should already be in place but isn't.

The level of complacency and arrogance that stems from knowing you can be as inept as humanely possible and still retain your job is undeniably staggering.

If you introduce VAR, then introduce more measures to tackle the root of the problem. Otherwise what's the point? Just do away with officials on the pitch.

Of course everyone wants the right decisions made in the end but you should also want the right decisions made in the first place and VAR doesn't do that so why should it be the priority and first and only port of call for a solution.

The potential methods that could address the problems don't take too long to implement and at the very least should be brought in alongside it; despite being easily addressed long before.
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Don't these ref's get sent on holiday or re-training or something when they have a stinker?
The FIFA ones never get another game
 
On a practical level, unless or until incidents are shown to the crowd and players on a large screen, it would probably be prudent for the referee to view the replay on a screen that does not face the pitch. Players and managers will congregate at the tunnel and try to see it, so it makes sense to have them kept away and on the pitch.
 
Bluearmy said:
The whole reason VAR is here is because the refereeing is poor, they tried all sorts to fix it and this is the last resort. I actually think it's unfixable personally as its corrupt. Anthony Taylor should tell you all you need to know about the game and the integrity of referees. So the FA have no chance of getting to the root of the problem because it's not a training issue.

VAR may never be perfect. But it will strip the blatant corruption out of the game in its current state. Significantly so. I just can't see how you would not be all for that....
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If you genuinely believe the first bolded statement, I don't see how you can also believe the second one. It's the exact same "corrupt" people who are monitoring the videos and deciding when it should be used. This current version of VAR is every bit as open to corruption as the traditional non-VAR system of officiating games.

Personally, I think VAR has a place in the game, but the version currently being used is farcical and will have to become far more coherent and streamlined if it is to gain wider acceptance.
 
pudge said:
I'm not against using it.

I'm against them implementing it before they tackle the bigger issues within officiating.

VAR shouldn't be first on the list of problem solving solutions. It should be on there though.
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Strange logic, it's like saying you won't tackle uninsured drivers until you have wiped out all drink driving.
 
Fuming yesterday....what is the bloody point of trialing a VAR system to see if it works and to only use it on the idd occassion. Yesterday against Cardiff was a orime example at the beginning of the game when the commentators mdntioned it not being used, that you knew something would happen and low and behold a wrongly awarded offside wonder strike by Bernado and a dirty hatchet job on Sane were missed.

It should be present now at all games, none of this bollocks about bringing it in gradually, get it implemented full time.
 
BerkshireBlue said:
VAR was atrocious today, Lee Mason took a full 2 minutes consulting with it today and it completely stopped the flow of the game. Also people in the stadium had no clue what was going on. Players didn't know whether to celebrate or not.

Oh well at least the incorrect decision was finally made
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funny
 
citytilllidie said:
VAR - There will be a massive increase in players jumping to the floor at corners when this thing kicks in. Still can't get that Salah dive when he got touched on the shoulder out of my head.
In theory, he touched him, reality, Salah massive dive and should have been booked.
There will be carnage, with penalties galore in each match.
Practice your pen's lads, there's going to be lots
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you are putting two issues into one, the pull and the theatrics from salah, the pull is a pen no doubt and salah should of been booked for his theatrics
 
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