Veganism

[aguero93:20]

Domestic doggy's are now omnivores very adaptable our best friends are.

Not quite, see post above.

 

[i kne albert davy]

So we can eat them now? Cool!

Are you Korean by any chance.

 

[Metal Biker]

So are dogs. His reply to why is it OK to eat one & not the other was "Law of nature; don't eat animals that also eat meat".

Strange how lions favour zebra, wildebeest and gazelles over hyenas and leopards, isn't it.

 

[Metal Biker]

Are you Korean by any chance.

Nah, i'm fresh out.

 

[aguero93:20]

If you got away with less than 6 month's in the chokey and didn't lose 20k from your bank account you did ok.

€500 and only because I lived in a bird sanctuary. We're discussing a bounty on them here to cull the fuckers so was never going to be much worse.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Not quite, see post above.

Not healthy to feed a domestic dog purely meat I'm afraid thousands of years of living with us and selective breeding has altered their DNA from their wolf ancestors the protein they require is no longer at the same level hence more bear like in diet than wolf like.

 

[Damocles]

This is like Vegan bingo in here. All the logically false classics are out.

Does it make something morally acceptable because it was beneficial to us in the past? It could be argued that 200 years ago our society benefited from slavery being productive & beneficial, to the people who weren't slaves, does that mean it was unreasonabe, ill-judged, misdirected and unbecoming that people thought it should be abolished?

This values a human life at the same moral price as a non-human life and that is demonstrably false in almost every possible way.

How would you feel if you suddently became someone else's food in this imagined future? Do you think it would be justified for them to cut you up and eat you,because they were now the dominant species or would you prefer it if they left you to go about your own business?

Is this likely to happen? If we're talking hypotheticals that are unrealistic, what would you do if all the animals were actually mini serial killers who planned world domination and only carnivorous humans were keeping them in check? We're goddamn heroes.

As they don't have a brain, central nervous system or pain receptors it would be anatomically not possible for them to feel pain.

Pain is a human concept and not applicable to animals. They have neither the biology nor the psychology to feel pain in the same way that humans do. This is you fascisticly attempting to dominate nature, transposing human values onto living things that do not have the capacity to understand them

 

[i kne albert davy]

Strange how lions favour zebra, wildebeest and gazelles over hyenas and leopards, isn't it.

Lions love a bit of Hyena not only a light snack but more wildebeest and gazelle left over as well.

 

[aguero93:20]

Not healthy to feed a domestic dog purely meat I'm afraid thousands of years of living with us and selective breeding has altered their DNA from their wolf ancestors the protein they require is no longer at the same level hence more bear like in diet than wolf like.

Nothing wrong with feeding them just meat as long as it's raw and fresh and they get things like bonemeal as well, there's also nothing wrong with feeding them heavily cooked starch with cooked meat instead. They're far from omnivores, they're carnivores with a slightly adapted diet.
Wolves would be eating fresh raw meat with bone marrow and offal, Bears eat a mix of fruit, sticks, veg, insects, and meat that would kill a dog stone dead.

Edit: the main reason we don't feed dogs a wolf diet is to control aggression.

 

[Scottyboi]

We don't have to eat other animals though, we can survive & even thrive on a plant based diet. Growing numbers of top athletes are moving to wholefood plant based diets as they are seeing the benefits. If we had to eat them I would agree, but we can choose not too. Even cutting down could have a massive positive impact on the planet.

Would you agree that it would be a better if we tried to not destroy the eco system of the world?

The only reason a Vegan diet has become so popular/hipster is through the sheer amount of choice and how privileged we are now. People go mad at the Chinese for eating dogs but what can you do if you are starving and have a family to feed.

The thing I find with vegans and my sister is one, is that they go on about animals but don't give to shits about human lives. My sister says she won't watch blue planet because of the starving polar bears caused by global warming, she fucking drives to work lmao.

 

[Juan King]

Replies in red

This is like Vegan bingo in here. All the logically false classics are out.



This values a human life at the same moral price as a non-human life and that is demonstrably false in almost every possible way. Are non humans not deserving of any moral consideration then?


Is this likely to happen? If we're talking hypotheticals that are unrealistic, what would you do if all the animals were actually mini serial killers who planned world domination and only carnivorous humans were keeping them in check? We're goddamn heroes. No, this is not likely to happen at all, someone posted a comment about an imaginary future where we were no longer top of the food chain.My question was a response to this.




Pain is a human concept and not applicable to animals. They have neither the biology nor the psychology to feel pain in the same way that humans do. So if I was to harm a dog, would that be OK then as acoording to you they wouldn't feel pain in the same way as humans?

This is you fascisticly attempting to dominate nature, transposing human values onto living things that do not have the capacity to understand them

 

[Damocles]

Are non humans not deserving of any moral consideration then?

The gap between "equal to human" and "none" is actually quite large.

So if I was to harm a dog, would that be OK then as acoording to you they wouldn't feel pain in the same way as humans?

If you were to kill flies, ants, and even bacteria then doesn't that make your entire stance physically impossible to achieve?

 

[Juan King]

The only reason a Vegan diet has become so popular/hipster is through the sheer amount of choice and how privileged we are now. People go mad at the Chinese for eating dogs but what can you do if you are starving and have a family to feed.

The thing I find with vegans and my sister is one, is that they go on about animals but don't give to shits about human lives. My sister says she won't watch blue planet because of the starving polar bears caused by global warming, she fucking drives to work lmao.

There may be some vegans who seem to care more about animals than humans, but I don't think you can apply that to all vegans. They might be your perception based on what you have seen, I had misconceptions of veganism until fairly recently. I know a diverse range of people who are vegan for different reasons and I would say in general they are caring about humans, non humans & the environment. There are some hipster vegans now, but there are also more no hipster ones. Large parts of the world live on a mostly plant based diet as that is what they can afford. Also there are communities that have refrained from eating meat for a very long time, such as some buddhists & people who follow jainism. Also Ital rasta diets follow plant based eating.

People do what they have to do to survive,we are not in a position in this country where we have to eat meat so it comes down to choosing to do so.

 

[Juan King]

The gap between "equal to human" and "none" is actually quite large.

Is a dog worthy of moral consideration in your opinion? I asked if it was OK to harm a dog, as according to you they don't feel pain?


If you were to kill flies, ants, and even bacteria then doesn't that make your entire stance physically impossible to achieve?

I don't kill ants or flies. The vegan moral stance is as follow, the key part is in bold, it's quite a simple concept: "


"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

 

[aguero93:20]

I don't kill ants or flies. The vegan moral stance is as follow, the key part is in bold, it's quite a simple concept: "


"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

Where do you buy your food from?

 

[Metal Biker]

I don't kill ants or flies. The vegan moral stance is as follow, the key part is in bold, it's quite a simple concept: "


"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

So we should all be expected to allow pests to multiply unchecked. That'll do wonders for crop production, won't it.

 

[Scottyboi]

There may be some vegans who seem to care more about animals than humans, but I don't think you can apply that to all vegans. They might be your perception based on what you have seen, I had misconceptions of veganism until fairly recently. I know a diverse range of people who are vegan for different reasons and I would say in general they are caring about humans, non humans & the environment. There are some hipster vegans now, but there are also more no hipster ones. Large parts of the world live on a mostly plant based diet as that is what they can afford. Also there are communities that have refrained from eating meat for a very long time, such as some buddhists & people who follow jainism. Also Ital rasta diets follow plant based eating.

People do what they have to do to survive,we are not in a position in this country where we have to eat meat so it comes down to choosing to do so.

It is an honest way of living and fair play to you for defending what you believe in. I did do it for a month was strict with it, my bloated belly went straight away. However I defy you having a meal at Fazenda and telling me that anything Vegan is nicer haha.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The only reason a Vegan diet has become so popular/hipster is through the sheer amount of choice and how privileged we are now. People go mad at the Chinese for eating dogs but what can you do if you are starving and have a family to feed.

But surely that's the whole premise of being a vegan? It recognises that you're in a position to make a choice between one that negatively impacts on animals and one that doesn't. It's the same reason why no-one's worried about whether a poor person in rural China is buying their clothes from a factory where the workers are well paid.

But for the record, people don't eat dogs because they're cheaper, they eat them because they're a delicacy. People without much money generally don't eat a lot of any kind of meat because it's more expensive. It's not rural farmers who are paying $50 for a bowl of shark fin soup or creating a market for rhino horn, it's people who are in a financial position to make a conscious choice.

 

[Juan King]

It is an honest way of living and fair play to you for defending what you believe in. I did do it for a month was strict with it, my bloated belly went straight away. However I defy you having a meal at Fazenda and telling me that anything Vegan is nicer haha.

What made you try plant based eating? From what you have said you got some benefits from it? It's not all or nothing, it can take people a long time to become fully plant based, if at all. Even reducing consumption could be beneficial.

It's not that I didn't like the taste of meat. I was brought up & conditioned to eat it like most other people in society. I didn't really question it much either. I loved eating meat and did so for forty years. I started experimenting with whole food plant based eating & at first I struggled to even think of anything I could eat that didn't have some kind of animal based product in it. If you had told me two years ago I would be vegan now & teetotal I would have thought that you were mental. I'm now eating better food than ever & I feel fantastic. I eat a wholefood diet, you can eat a shitty vegan diet the same as a shitty non vegan diet. After a while I realised that I didn't need meat or dairy at all & I felt better without it. The a while into that I looked into animal agriculture in more detail & I was vegan after than for ethical reasons as well as for my health & environmental reasons.

This is growing, whether people like it or not. I was at an event in London last week called Vegan Nights and there were loads of really good food stalls with 100's of people there and massive queues to buy the food.

 

[Scottyboi]

What made you try plant based eating? From what you have said you got some benefits from it? It's not all or nothing, it can take people a long time to become fully plant based, if at all. Even reducing consumption could be beneficial.

It's not that I didn't like the taste of meat. I was brought up & conditioned to eat it like most other people in society. I didn't really question it much either. I loved eating meat and did so for forty years. I started experimenting with whole food plant based eating & at first I struggled to even think of anything I could eat that didn't have some kind of animal based product in it. If you had told me two years ago I would be vegan now & teetotal I would have thought that you were mental. I'm now eating better food than ever & I feel fantastic. I eat a wholefood diet, you can eat a shitty vegan diet the same as a shitty non vegan diet. After a while I realised that I didn't need meat or dairy at all & I felt better without it. The a while into that I looked into animal agriculture in more detail & I was vegan after than for ethical reasons as well as for my health & environmental reasons.

This is growing, whether people like it or not. I was at an event in London last week called Vegan Nights and there were loads of really good food stalls with 100's of people there and massive queues to buy the food.

I genuinely missed the taste of beef, it is something I don't want to live without and I love cows bless em :(. But I am going to cut down my meat and diary consumption anyway it is just gluttony to be honest. I love coconut milk and liked making my porridge with almond milk as appose to cows milk. Something does have to change though especially in America, the amount of food they waste yearly could end world hunger. Too many animals are killed and then not eaten, it is just wrong.