bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
were any of the beds wet................?
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booking next years holidays with brexit coming
- Thread starter city saint
- Start date
were any of the beds wet................?
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
So if we drop out of the European Aviation Safety Agency and don't replace it with a separate deal with the EU what happens?*sigh*
Ok, travel is my industry. I run my own business, I'm chairman of an industry trade body.
I can categorically assure you that bookings and flights for post March 2019 have been taken for months. There are no issues and no panic.
Airspace is not governed by the EU, only open skies is, and irrespective of deals or otherwise, it's business as usual, because none of your holidays are likely to involve issues such as sixth freedoms or free standing cabotage within the EU or cross border selling.
The idea that airspace would be denied is spectacularly idiotic, not least because it would entail the whole of the EU not being able to fly to the US and Canada for a start.
There are many issues about us leaving the EU, but this really is project fear stupidity, even before you get into the obvious things like Spain's economy collapsing without British tourism.
Book your holiday.
I've heard that planes will be able to take off but not land at any airport in an EU country. Instead, they'll circle at low level until they run out of fuel then crash as close as possible to the airport of destination. Surviving passengers will then be able to gather together their scattered luggage and get on with their holiday. An added bonus to this method is that you won't have to queue at customs.
So if we drop out of the European Aviation Safety Agency and don't replace it with a separate deal with the EU what happens?
Safety? Nothing at all. Why would it? We have the CAA, that's their job. As it was until the EU took those powers.
Are we somehow unable to stop aircraft falling out of the sky in this country? Are the Europeans going to decide that we can't?
Why would it make the slightest difference?
Sadly you’re not the type of expert some remainers want to listen too.
Nice try though and apologies to all for talking politics in here.
I don't care which way people voted. Good arguments either side and both perfectly honourable positions.
I do care if we are at the point where complete bullshit risks genuinely damaging our economy. I don't mean the thread starter at all, I mean those who have created the uncertainty where none exists. That's not politics, that's wicked.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
I don't care which way people voted. Good arguments either side and both perfectly honourable positions.
I do care if we are at the point where complete bullshit risks genuinely damaging our economy. I don't mean the thread starter at all, I mean those who have created the uncertainty where none exists. That's not politics, that's wicked.
Well said mate.
Twitter has a hell of a lot to answer for.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Because other experts reckon that the transfer of powers from the European Safety Agency back to the CAA and ratification by other international regulators will take some time.Safety? Nothing at all. Why would it? We have the CAA, that's their job. As it was until the EU took those powers.
Are we somehow unable to stop aircraft falling out of the sky in this country? Are the Europeans going to decide that we can't?
Why would it make the slightest difference?
Still you know best.
Because other experts reckon that the transfer of powers from the European Safety Agency back to the CAA and ratification by other international regulators will take some time.
Still you know best.
Yeah, sorry, I just work every day with this stuff and see bookings coming in constantly. I won't be up at the level of Sky News talking heads, you're spot on. This is just, you know, my job. What would I know compared to "experts" ?
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Indeed.Yeah, sorry, I just work every day with this stuff and see bookings coming in constantly. I won't be up at the level of Sky News talking heads, you're spot on. This is just, you know, my job. What would I know compared to "experts" ?
Thank you for not addressing the issue I raised.
Indeed.
Thank you for not addressing the issue I raised.
Well that's bloody rich, given you didn't bother addressing a single point I made.
And yet I did do so with yours, but you didn't bother to respond to it. That it won't make the slightest difference to anyone's holiday.
I realise you would dearly love the world to collapse on the 1st April next year, but it won't. I'm so sorry. I just work in this industry at a senior level. What would I know?
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Just to cut through the crap I asked you whether it would take time to transfer the safety responsibility carried out by EASA on behalf of the U.K. to the CAA and to get this ratified by other international agencies.Well that's bloody rich, given you didn't bother addressing a single point I made.
And yet I did do so with yours, but you didn't bother to respond to it. That it won't make the slightest difference to anyone's holiday.
I realise you would dearly love the world to collapse on the 1st April next year, but it won't. I'm so sorry. I just work in this industry at a senior level. What would I know?
You say you are an expert in this field and yet surprisingly you failed to answer.
I'm sure this was an oversight on your part , so I look forward to receiving your expert reply.
Just to cut through the crap I asked you whether it would take time to transfer the safety responsibility carried out by EASA on behalf of the U.K. to the CAA and to get this ratified by other international agencies.
You say you are an expert in this field and yet surprisingly you failed to answer.
I'm sure this was an oversight on your part , so I look forward to receiving your expert reply.
Oh wait - so you can ignore what anyone else says and insist then that you're answered, is that how it goes?
It doesn't require any ratification by anyone. It's a reserved power. It simply transfers back to the CAA under equivalency and continuity.
Now, it's always possible that the EU could decide to unilaterally be complete idiots and reject anything from the UK that they don't reject from Rwanda or the Yemen, and in those circumstances there could be a problem. But usually, planning isnt based on others being total morons out to cause global meltdown and more specifically, explanations aren't usually provided to people being total morons and anticipating utter stupidity.
My apologies for failing to make that clear.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
So let me be clear.Oh wait - so you can ignore what anyone else says and insist then that you're answered, is that how it goes?
It doesn't require any ratification by anyone. It's a reserved power. It simply transfers back to the CAA under equivalency and continuity.
Now, it's always possible that the EU could decide to unilaterally be complete idiots and reject anything from the UK that they don't reject from Rwanda or the Yemen, and in those circumstances there could be a problem. But usually, planning isnt based on others being total morons out to cause global meltdown and more specifically, explanations aren't usually provided to people being total morons and anticipating utter stupidity.
My apologies for failing to make that clear.
"It simply transfers back"- [responsibility for airline safety from EASA to CAA]' - meaning that the CAA don't have to do anything like take on extra staff, implement procedures previously performed by EASA, get approval from any other international agencies?
So just to be clear if we crash out on 30 March with no deal the CAA don't have to do anything different or additional to what they do now, or go through any bureaucracy or paperwork, they simply announce they've taken over all EASAs previous responsibilities and that is sufficient.
That's good, I didn't realise it would be that simple,things like this usually aren't.
Thank you for putting my mind at rest.
So let me be clear.
"It simply transfers back"- [responsibility for airline safety from EASA to CAA]' - meaning that the CAA don't have to do anything like take on extra staff, implement procedures previously performed by EASA, get approval from any other international agencies?
So just to be clear if we crash out on 30 March with no deal the CAA don't have to do anything different or additional to what they do now, or go through any bureaucracy or paperwork, they simply announce they've taken over all EASAs previous responsibilities and that is sufficient.
That's good, I didn't realise it would be that simple,things like this usually aren't.
Thank you for putting my mind at rest.
Oh, sorry - were you under the impression that this was all handled at European level and the CAA did nothing in the UK? Yes, I can see why you are so hopelessly confused. It's not like national civil aviation authorities were responsible for enforcing EU wide regulations or anything...
Any other the end of the world is nigh questions?
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Sorry mate it wasn't an "end of the world is nigh" question it was simply to do with the transfer of EASA's responsibility for safety to CAA in the event of a no deal Brexit.Oh, sorry - were you under the impression that this was all handled at European level and the CAA did nothing in the UK? Yes, I can see why you are so hopelessly confused. It's not like national civil aviation authorities were responsible for enforcing EU wide regulations or anything...
Any other the end of the world is nigh questions?
Other aviation experts reckon that the transfer will take time which could give rise to problems if we crash out on 30 March with no deal in place ( no deal meaning no deal , not for example ' no deal' but a side deal on say aviation because that would not be no deal).
Anyway you are 'thee' expert and you have spoken and my mind is now at rest.
Thank you once again.
Sorry mate it wasn't an "end of the world is nigh" question it was simply to do with the transfer of EASA's responsibility for safety to CAA in the event of a no deal Brexit.
Other aviation experts reckon that the transfer will take time which could give rise to problems if we crash out on 30 March with no deal in place ( no deal meaning no deal , not for example ' no deal' but a side deal on say aviation because that would not be no deal).
Anyway you are 'thee' expert and you have spoken and my mind is now at rest.
Thank you once again.
FFS. This is what the CAA do. It has been an EU competency for policy and the CAA are the operating authority in the UK to administer that policy. What do you imagine their staff (thousands of them) do all day?
Your nebulous and constant appeals to authority are tiresome.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
You see what it is mate, a believable answer from an 'expert' would point out in layman's terms the issues/ problems that need to addressed and action that needs to be taken and timescales.FFS. This is what the CAA do. It has been an EU competency for policy and the CAA are the operating authority in the UK to administer that policy. What do you imagine their staff (thousands of them) do all day?
Your nebulous and constant appeals to authority are tiresome.
Your reply is noticeably short on any such detail, relies on vague generalisations and has a political slant which raises doubts as to it's objectivity.
You see what it is mate, a believable answer from an 'expert' would point out in layman's terms the issues/ problems that need to addressed and action that needs to be taken and timescales.
Your reply is noticeably short on any such detail, relies on vague generalisations and has a political slant which raises doubts as to it's objectivity.
No. It's just that you don't like the answer because it doesn't fit your prejudices. These are layman's terms, for a subject you don't understand. But it wouldn't matter, because you start from the view it's a disaster, and talk about "experts" who happen to agree with you.
And yet funnily enough, those of us who actually work in the sector are pretty relaxed, despite our jobs depending on all this. You might want to wonder why, in between listening to those "experts" who will keep telling you how planes will be grounded.
You enjoy yourself with that.
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Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Bump.No. It's just that you don't like the answer because it doesn't fit your prejudices. These are layman's terms, for a subject you don't understand. But it wouldn't matter, because you start from the view it's a disaster, and talk about "experts" who happen to agree with you.
And yet funnily enough, those of us who actually work in the sector are pretty relaxed, despite our jobs depending on all this. You might want to wonder why, in between listening to those "experts" who will keep telling you how planes will be grounded.
You enjoy yourself with that.
Hello again mate.
In their latest technical notices the government has admitted no deal would ground our aircraft.
This seems to contradict your view.
Comments?
Bump.
Hello again mate.
In their latest technical notices the government has admitted no deal would ground our aircraft.
This seems to contradict your view.
Comments?
No, it doesn't. Because what they are saying is that should the EU decide to de-recognise safety certification, then it could, but since that would be a decision entirely without precedent globally, utterly moronic and totally vindictive for no good reason whatever, then that's not something to worry about especially.
It is stating what can be said about the US, Australia or anywhere else, that it is indeed possible to refuse to have any dealings with another country, and should someone effectively want to declare economic war, they can do.
So no, still not worried by worst case scenarios reliant on that declaration of war. OK?