cool. and that's your experience - but, for me, as the mind quiets it is 'obvious' that their is something beyond this. Have you tried this also - or you just relying in other people's
theories of 'what is?'
Religion
- Thread starter idahoblues
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theories of 'what is?'
Mate the point of (some) divinity is to know through direct experience that there is a power to be experienced that is beyond the relative
weakness/strength of the intellectual mind. Buddhists might use koans for this - so as to tire the mind and thus surrender into something deeper.
Aldous Huxley's essay 'The doors of Perception' is an exploration of how some folk use plant medicine (in this case peyote) to move beyond
heavily indoctrinated states of 'normal' identification and thus with that ingrained 'learned' perception. Scary stuff, no? The courage to question
the nature of reality beyond the comfort zone of friends /peers/city fans in the bluemoon forum. And a curious interpretation of the word 'crutch'
if I'm honest- given that it is a process of dropping the artificial so as to deeper open to a felt, internal sense of being supported by Reality.
Cheers - much appreciated. Life would be a bit dull if it was only about coming to learn and parrot the exact same story, surely? Paint by numbers,
the same picture again and again and again. This is what school was for me - and quite literally helped me come close to a death from boredom.
Til I found something else, that is - though it can still be a bit back and forth as to which path I choose each day, each moment.
That’s just you.
Aren’t you relying on other people’s theories of what is? You get your theory from one book, written by people less intelligent than you and I, who lived as shepherds and merchants in a poor part of the desert during the Bronze Age.
It’s a stretch to say it has any merit at all, never mind it’s divine truth.
I’ve always said if you believe this stuff, you’ll believe anything.
@arfurclue
So, your personal experience led you to the divinity of a god, yes?
And I’m guessing, this is a Christian god? You have not stated, but I assume you are a Christian of some denomination.
So, if you are Christian, the only manual you have is the bible... so I again ask, do you follow the bible, or just pick and choose the bits you want to adhere to from it?
So, your personal experience led you to the divinity of a god, yes?
And I’m guessing, this is a Christian god? You have not stated, but I assume you are a Christian of some denomination.
So, if you are Christian, the only manual you have is the bible... so I again ask, do you follow the bible, or just pick and choose the bits you want to adhere to from it?
oldtimerdiscopants
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More intelligent people than myself genuinely believe in one God or other so I am unwilling to completely discount it. Saying that having faith without following a book is somewhere where I would go if I ever felt the need.
I can't accept that the words of God have been written down by a man and that there are rules that have to be adhered to to follow any particular sect.
I can't accept that the words of God have been written down by a man and that there are rules that have to be adhered to to follow any particular sect.
No I wouldn't particularly say I am a 'christian' of any denomination. Yes I would say I have felt at times an experience that could be called 'divine.' Arguments about whether this is a 'christian god' or not are found to be utterly laughable in those moments. And, yes, oftentime I have once again forgotten how to open to this experience. Kind of frustrating - but if the proof is in the pudding, then a christian church is pretty low down on the list of places I would go to in order to remember. So in this way I have sometimes dipped into the bible and found some of it 'makes sense' according to practical experience - and then there is a whole heap of stuff that is just like 'what the fuck? How does anyone believe that this is really what was originally spoken of.' And speaking of the bible - I can't remember the last time I physically picked one up. Occasionally I will have a quote come to mind and look it up but that's the extent of that.
Is more of a practice. Just at times a choice for slowness, simplicity and quietness in such a way so as to take a break from the racing mind that is endlessly trying to figure
life out but actually gets in the way of fully enjoying it. Probably not something that will be learned in a church - especially if one listens to the experiences mentioned by different folk here.
Edit : ps is it really that daft to suggest that its possible that when in a state of boredom, one doesn't always have to find exciting things to do - instead there is the option of learning how to relax beyond this...coming to know a state of quiet joy that is, well, free?
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ps if art might be said to be an exploration of the nature of the relationship of stillness and movement, the likes of music an exploration of the nature of the relationship of silence and sound...well, how can one claim that one stillness is more true than another, one silence is better than another? Isn't that sort of absurb? But maybe that's the part of the point - that in a shared, essential stillness and silence it is discovered that, at root, no one of us is anymore special than another. Bit of a blow if time in life has only
been spent investing in outer differences.
been spent investing in outer differences.
So you found a god. A random god, that got you through something.
A god that isn’t the Christian one, and clearly isn’t the Islamic one, nor the Jewish one, nor a Hindi one, nor Thor, not Zeus, not an untold multitude of others lost to history due to a dwindling lack of disciples...
You found something in your head, great.
it got you through a bad period, even better.
Sadly, in the context of real life and this thread, it’s not a ‘god’, it’s your wonderful complex brain which has created your salvation from your issues - great stuff by your brain.
But don’t belittle yourself and your achievement by handing over its magnitude and attributing it to a nonexistent ‘god’.
One way of looking at this might be to notice that respiration, inspiration and spirit have the same root. I came to discover that to keep the mind noisy and busy I actually have to breathe 'shorter' than is natural. This ends up pretty damn tiring, even what might be called depressing. In slowly learning to allow the breath to deepen, one can encounter
emotional turbulence but on the other side of this is a quieter peace and joy. Don't much remember learning anything this practical in school - actually in a funny way trying to hold onto a way of thinking that I learned in school actually involves this shorter breathing. One might say that school taught me to forget inner joy but to learn a load of stuff
so as to earn money and buy heaps of things to make me happy. But then those things I had began to fail and yes, i came to know a dark depression to the point where I began to genuinely question whether I wanted to keep on living. The answer was yes and lead to what might be called an introduction to 'faith' (though not at that time anything to do with religion). A faith that said 'even though I have no fucking idea how to be genuinely happy - and can barely imagine it being possible - there must be a way to come to know joy. As you might have guessed, this didn't involve going to church but did involve failed attempts of the 'scientific way' of using medication. Instead, I eventually came across martial arts (and its wisdom) - this was a life saver. But it involved slowly learning to let go of my school taught way of thinking. Years later this is still an ongoing process. And it is curious for me to write here as sometimes it feels like people are insisting that I go back to this way of thinking...to go back to this way of thinking would surely lead to depression and (without wanting to sound melodramatic) even death - if not active as such, then at least its passive acceptance. On the other hand, as people write this way it is interesting for me to become aware of where this way of thinking might still have its hooks within - that this can be released and so come to know a deeper Life, a greater freedom.
Having said all that, you are welcome to your beliefs if you want. No problem with that. What you might choose to understand, if you want, is that in my desire to be with what works in a practical sense for me -eg in terms of inspiration - then I might not always agree with what you write and you might not agree with and/or understand what I write. This is ok in my books - and sure, i don't need a bible to tell me that either.
And this is it - you tell me to prove something to you, whilst you deliberately choose to live in ignorance of it...then say that your choice for ignorance is proof that I cannot be experiencing what I am. Ok. Anyhow, enjoy life. Learned loads through this thread, so will leave with appreciation - even if our ways of looking at life are seemingly poles apart.Cheers.
yep
Well-Known Member
Look forward to what you say to your partners’ request to prove you love them. How many pages and how many equations?
i'm in ignorance, nice one, i've never once said you are not experiencing what you feel but your'e the one saying the feeling is not of this world but can't back it up with anything
you can't make it up
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yep
Well-Known Member
Yes - there comes a time when one can choose to be honest about ignorance so as to open to something beyond this. And from how you have written, for me, this suggests that there are folk that are far more open to wisdom than you are. And me - but that is part of the journey...to find choices for ignorance and let go of them. Or if you want to use the word closed then feel feel to do so instead. Actually another way of looking at this might be to say that it can be a way of finding, and letting go of, resistance to the deepest intimacy of Life, Love and Self. I accept that there are times when I experience states of being that reflect a decision for closedness/ignorance - no big deal. But you seem closed to the notion that you can only really know this when you choose to go through this yourself. Til then it can only ever be a theory that someone else speaks of that you might decide sounds nice or not.
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whp.blue
Well-Known Member
Not to put too finer point on it mate, that is absolute Bollocks.
tolmie's hairdoo
Well-Known Member
I despise it in all its forms.
Never been Christened, my folks allowed their children to form their own take as we got older.
I'm a City fan because of my dad, he guaranteed it from as soon as I could walk and defend their name with a zeal just as forceful as any religion.
Just as the religious crowd make damn sure to indoctrinate kids from cradle to grave.
No difference between the two.
I always find it amazing how there are literally scores of Gods and religions all over our planet, but yeah, yours is the right one...
Never been Christened, my folks allowed their children to form their own take as we got older.
I'm a City fan because of my dad, he guaranteed it from as soon as I could walk and defend their name with a zeal just as forceful as any religion.
Just as the religious crowd make damn sure to indoctrinate kids from cradle to grave.
No difference between the two.
I always find it amazing how there are literally scores of Gods and religions all over our planet, but yeah, yours is the right one...