Schalke post match thread

This has to be one of the worst post match threads in a long time, surely?

If you genuinely think the first was a penalty then you’ve never played football, or gathered any understanding of how quickly things kicked move.

If you think pep got his team selection wrong, then look at the stats. We limited them to 3 shots total/2 shots on goal. A German top level team at home in the UCL. (I await people telling me stats don’t matter because they prove their argument wrong)

I’ll concede a few players were below their standards; De Bruyne stands outs but to be fair he hasn’t played a lot of football this year and we know how fucking great he can be, so we can afford him a little more time I think.

Otamendi being sent off is a moot point because he shouldn’t have been carded for a ball to hand.

Personally I’m so fucking tired of UEFA trying to cheat us. It’s obvious that they are. Not just in the matches either. FFP, fines, bans, referee choices (An entirely German officially team in a game against a German manager), I wish we could do more than boo the ****s.


When all is said and done though, an absolutely fantastic result, not just the adrenaline and belief it gives us but also the absolutely disheartening effect it will have on the dippers, who know we have more bottle than them.
 
TheThirdDeano said:
This has to be one of the worst post match threads in a long time, surely?

If you genuinely think the first was a penalty then you’ve never played football, or gathered any understanding of how quickly things kicked move.

If you think pep got his team selection wrong, then look at the stats. We limited them to 3 shots total/2 shots on goal. A German top level team at home in the UCL. (I await people telling me stats don’t matter because they prove their argument wrong)

I’ll concede a few players were below their standards; De Bruyne stands outs but to be fair he hasn’t played a lot of football this year and we know how fucking great he can be, so we can afford him a little more time I think.

Otamendi being sent off is a moot point because he shouldn’t have been carded for a ball to hand.

Personally I’m so fucking tired of UEFA trying to cheat us. It’s obvious that they are. Not just in the matches either. FFP, fines, bans, referee choices (An entirely German officially team in a game against a German manager), I wish we could do more than boo the ****s.


When all is said and done though, an absolutely fantastic result, not just the adrenaline and belief it gives us but also the absolutely disheartening effect it will have on the dippers, who know we have more bottle than them.
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Re your first 2 paras I’d dissagree, and i say that as regular contributor on here over many years. I genuinely think think you’ve misjudged things.

When I first same handball replays on the highlights summaries in the news at 10.25pm last night I thought Ota was slow to pull his arm away and could have done so quicker if he’d wushed - or moved his body the other way so it hit his torso. I’m not saying I am right, I’m just saying it was not clear cut, ie was open to intepretation.

Your comment about “one of the worst post match threads ever” also pays no regard to the tragic event we’ve learned about since. Odd.
 
Seems Pep is asking for full support for the return leg.

“Every stage is more difficult. I remember at Bayern, winning these kind of games means a lot. We cannot do it without the fans. To get to the quarters is still open. We need their support in three weeks. They can come and support us like they did against Liverpool. We need it.”
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is 'Never a penalty in a million years' (e.g. Sterling v Shakhtar) and 10 is 'Absolutely nailed-on', last night's were both maybe a 5.

But thinking about it, if we're demanding that Boly's goal at Wolves should be ruled out because, intentional or otherwise, it went in off his hand/arm (and I think that's the correct view) then are we being inconsistent if we say that a goal-bound shot hitting a defender's hand or arm isn't handball, regardless of intent?
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Boly's should've been ruled out because he intentionally handled it. His arm is in a completely unnatural position to break a fall, the only reason it's in that position is he knew he wasn't getting the ball with his head.

I'd say Otter's is about a 3 at best on your scale
 
Bill said:
Not sure I'll be doing many more. My thoughts now are in future do the trip and do a dummy run the day before,that or sack the game off and watch it in the pub nearby. Its always about the trip anyway :)
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Do you really have a wheelchair Bill ?
I thought it was people taking the piss, what happened ?
 
Citizen in Pakistan said:
Amazing win, whoever spotted Ederson deserves a villa from shiekh as pay raise is old school.

VAR is something that the game needs but it feels sometimes as if it has been implemented in a rush. Last night was an embarrassment for UEFA, they should ensure proper mechanism for it and every ground should have the adequate facilities before hand.

Hopefully, when PL introduces it next season, they would address these issues. May be they should have a 3rd umpire like system like how it is in cricket where 3rd umpire has all the decision making power and refs don't have to go and look up on the screens.
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Spot on, have another ref review it and he makes the decision, otherwise it will take too long, I thought this was how it was going to be implemented anyway ?
 
SWP's back said:
I know you’re passionate about your football and opinions and I’m the same and we both call it as we see it and I believe we’ve both been honest in expressing our thoughts etc but I have to say that explanation fucking stinks.

The fact he’s changed his mind and awarded a pen and a yellow “without being told what to do” and from having the replay “described” to him.... it isn’t even a joke. It’s so far beyond parody that it’s not even funny.

I still think it’s a penalty but the ref shouldn’t have given it in 1,000 years based on what actually went on. The fact Uefa have doubled down and are patting themselves on the back for it shows that in its current incarnation, VAR is open to abuse and not fit for service. They’ll make up any old shit to justify the decisions they choose.
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This has been my whole objection to v.a.r. from day one. Well including the time taken.

I'm all for the idea & implementation of technology to remove responsibility from the inconsistent & easily influenced morons who currently make these decisions.

But the only way to do that, is to make the rules simpler & the technology better.

We have already seen v.a.r. used on offside decisions here, when there's a tactical camera in the stand set up, in a better position to see it, than the camera actually used to make the decision, which is in an impossible position. But they are happy to start a crucial game, using that 'technology' rather than just say 'it won't work'.

Now we have v.a.r. used even when it is known to have malfunctioned. I recon there will be a few blind City fans who thought Otamendi didn't handle the ball, when they listened to it, but wouldn't dream of telling people they are certain about it.

The same bent, fucks who did the will of the cartel clubs to try & stitch up City, are the same ones who are driving the implementation of v.a.r. in its current form & they are handing it over to people like the guys who helped Liverpool knock City out of the Champs Lg & Mike Riley.

I don't believe that simple, consistent rules & precise technology are at the top of their agenda.

If it is the case that they really want v.a.r. to work, they could start by defining clearly what handball is & what constitutes a 'holding' or pushing foul in the penalty area

Seeing as they tested this at the World Cup & had exactly the same problems but have done absolutely nothing about it, I have no confidence that they are trying to improve decision making in football.

They just want it to appear as if they are.
 
Neville Kneville said:
But the only way to do that, is to make the rules simpler & the technology better.
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Yep. The amount of 'grey areas'* allow the ref to have far too much influence on the game.

*mostly areas where the rules are clear as day but constantly applied differently to suit the decision the referee wants to give.

I'm 100% in favour of VAR but it doesn't solve the referee problem and it needs to be more transparent with more accountability for officials.
 

" VAR decisions at Schalke v Manchester City explained

Thursday 21 February 2019

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/about-uefa/news/newsid=2593061.html

VAR protocol correctly applied for two penalty decisions during yesterday’s UEFA Champions League round of 16 match with emphasis put on “accuracy over speed.”

Two VAR reviews led to penalty kicks being awarded during yesterday’s UEFA Champions League match between FC Schalke 04 and Manchester City FC (2-3).

Both instances occurred during a period of approximately 10 minutes in which a technical issue experienced by the VAR technical supplier impacted the ability to deliver replay images to the pitchside referee review area.

When such a malfunction of the system occurs, the IFAB protocol allows for the VAR to describe to the referee what can be seen on the TV replay(s) but not tell him the decision that should be taken. The referee then makes a final decision based on his own perception and the information received orally from the VAR.

In regards to the first decision, the inability to access the incident replays at the pitchside review area led to a delay in reaching the correct decision to award a penalty kick for a handball offence, while the VAR orally described the situation to the referee to allow him to make a final decision, and for the referee to then provide an explanation to the two team captains to clarify the circumstances regarding the pitchside review area and the decision-making process

The second decision was also correctly made on the basis of the Laws of the Game (Law 11 – Offside) which stipulates: “if a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence”.

The images in the picture above - taken at the exact same moment from two different angles - clearly show that a foul is committed inside the box before the Schalke player could even attempt to play the ball and hence such offence must be punished with the awarding of a penalty kick.

Commenting on these two decisions, UEFA’s Chief Refereeing Officer Roberto Rosetti said: “I am pleased that even without the possibility for the referee to review the incidents with his own eyes, the excellent cooperation of the team of officials led to correct decisions being made.

“It must also be underlined that – and as is described in the VAR protocol - accuracy is always in principle more important than speed when reaching a decision. Clearly, last night’s technical issues had a big impact on the time taken to reach decisions, but we are fully aware that reducing the time factor is key to the success of VAR and we are doing our utmost to make reviews as quick and efficient as possible.

“However, what we ultimately want is correct decisions in such match-changing situations and this is what we got yesterday.”

UEFA will also be addressing the matter of the technical failure with its VAR technical supplier to ensure that such issue does not happen again in the future."
 
Neville Kneville said:
This has been my whole objection to v.a.r. from day one. Well including the time taken.

I'm all for the idea & implementation of technology to remove responsibility from the inconsistent & easily influenced morons who currently make these decisions.

But the only way to do that, is to make the rules simpler & the technology better.
Click to expand...

Re-worded handball rules to be passed next week:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...s-to-be-passed-next-week-report-idUKKCN1QB0I6
 
aguero93:20 said:
Yep. The amount of 'grey areas'* allow the ref to have far too much influence on the game.

*mostly areas where the rules are clear as day but constantly applied differently to suit the decision the referee wants to give.

I'm 100% in favour of VAR but it doesn't solve the referee problem and it needs to be more transparent with more accountability for officials.
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They can spell out to these people, for example what the criteria for givinv a handball should be, quite easily.

It says 'deliberate'. So, are you certain enough, beyond reasonable doubt, that the player did it on purpose ? Nobody, could be certain of that, in Otamendi's case. Likewise, the problem with the decision against City at the weekend, izn't the fact that the ref didn't give handball as he couldn't be 'certain', the problem is some **** like last night, then giving one which is much less certain, even when using a replay. Then they have been backed, officially, by the ruling body.

So the ref at weekend, is wrong, according to UEFA. But if Otamendi's handball is a pen & the one at weekend is a pen incorrectly not given, what is the criteria for not giving a pen ?

If the only time handball is accidental, is if the player has literally no time to move his arm, put it in the fucking rules!
 
Neville Kneville said:
This has been my whole objection to v.a.r. from day one. Well including the time taken.

I'm all for the idea & implementation of technology to remove responsibility from the inconsistent & easily influenced morons who currently make these decisions.

But the only way to do that, is to make the rules simpler & the technology better.

We have already seen v.a.r. used on offside decisions here, when there's a tactical camera in the stand set up, in a better position to see it, than the camera actually used to make the decision, which is in an impossible position. But they are happy to start a crucial game, using that 'technology' rather than just say 'it won't work'.

Now we have v.a.r. used even when it is known to have malfunctioned. I recon there will be a few blind City fans who thought Otamendi didn't handle the ball, when they listened to it, but wouldn't dream of telling people they are certain about it.

The same bent, fucks who did the will of the cartel clubs to try & stitch up City, are the same ones who are driving the implementation of v.a.r. in its current form & they are handing it over to people like the guys who helped Liverpool knock City out of the Champs Lg & Mike Riley.

I don't believe that simple, consistent rules & precise technology are at the top of their agenda.

If it is the case that they really want v.a.r. to work, they could start by defining clearly what handball is & what constitutes a 'holding' or pushing foul in the penalty area

Seeing as they tested this at the World Cup & had exactly the same problems but have done absolutely nothing about it, I have no confidence that they are trying to improve decision making in football.

They just want it to appear as if they are.
Click to expand...
Spot on.

Ask yourself this: if fairness and transparency were the name of the game, why wasn't var and goal line tech introduced years ago?

The answer of course is that fairness and transparency is not the name of the game. It never has been. That's why they allowed David Gill for example to sit on the board of the FA whilst at the same time being MD of the scum. A ludicrous conflict of interest that would never in a million years be allowed in a "clean" sport.

No, var and glt have been resisted for as long as possible because Fifa, Uefa and the FA have been worried these technologies would make it more difficult for them to manipulate and influence results.

Based on the events of Wednesday, they need not have worried. Their ability to cheat seems unimpaired.
 
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