UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[shemnel]

Marvin, it still doesn't matter whether UEFA or someonelse hacked us. It is still not allowed in a court of law to use anything gained illegally. Therefore they are deemed to also have broken the law and are just as liable, as if they did it themselves. It is as I stated the fruit of the poisonous tree.

this is not true. you can use illegally gained material as evidence, in some circumstances. It's circumstantial, as with a lot of things in law.

 

[BlueLook]

this is not true. you can use illegally gained material as evidence, in some circumstances. It's circumstantial, as with a lot of things in law.

Doesn't this imply that the LAW encourages STEALING?

 

[shemnel]

Has anyone read up on the Portuguese guy behind football links? He’s clearly a hacker and I have no doubt he obtained information illegally but I think his intentions are good.

Through football leaks he has helped to highlight corruption, massive tax evasion and even Ronaldo’s rape scandal. We might get caught up in it but I don’t agree with those that think it’s all targeted against City.

Football is corrupt and it’s nice someone is highlighting that and personally I don’t think hacked emails should negate the actions of clubs. I’m no fan of FFP and think they should be scrapped. I don’t even know if what we have done is breaking the rules, but this guy shouldn’t be vilified just because the club we love has been caught up in it all.

i think a lot of people would nod and agree with the statement "Is European football corrupt and in need of a total reformation?", i know i would, and i agree with whistleblowers in lots of situations, especially for the plight of the oppressed against big corporations, for example. But here we're looking at something more akin to extortion, plus some whistleblowing seemingly tacked on to help Pinto out of a shit swamp. I think he may have started out with mixed intention, and is getting an unduly heroic reception in some quarters. I for one wouldn't mind seeing European football torn down and rebuilt.

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Doesn't this imply that the LAW encourages STEALING?

Depends who you're stealing from , ask Assange

 

[BlueLook]

Depends who you're stealing from , ask Assange

I rather trust my mum on this ...

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Uefa do have the hacked material. Der Spiegel passed everything over apparently. Not that it matters. City haven’t argued the veracity or the material, but the context and prepared a 100 page rebuttal and evidence.

Quite. It stands to reason that UEFA have a relevant chunk, doesn't it? Otherwise they'd be trying to form a case based on nothing!

 

[MillionMilesAway]

this is not true. you can use illegally gained material as evidence, in some circumstances. It's circumstantial, as with a lot of things in law.

I believe this o be true.
How information is obtained may affect the weight it is given.

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

Can someone point me in the direction of material which confirms that Der Spiegel have directly passed stolen material on to Uefa, I haven't seen that anywhere and means a private business corporation is holding and using stolen material to the detriment of one of its license holders. I'm not sure how legal that would be.

 

[SWP's back]

Can someone point me in the direction of material which confirms that Der Spiegel have directly passed stolen material on to Uefa, I haven't seen that anywhere and means a private business corporation is holding and using stolen material to the detriment of one of its license holders. I'm not sure how legal that would be.

UEFA are also a regulator and are on record about this sort of thing.

Look, I don’t get why City fans keep going on and on about the legality of the hacked emails. City would not be preparing a 100 odd page rebuttal if they were going to try and argue their legality or veracity. They’re arguing the context (His Majesty vs His Majesty Sheik Mansour etc) and giving supporting evidence (bank transfers from Etihad and the like) that Etihad paid Manchester City directly.

It’s a non starter and not worth arguing or debating over.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

i think a lot of people would nod and agree with the statement "Is European football corrupt and in need of a total reformation?", i know i would, and i agree with whistleblowers in lots of situations, especially for the plight of the oppressed against big corporations, for example. But here we're looking at something more akin to extortion, plus some whistleblowing seemingly tacked on to help Pinto out of a shit swamp. I think he may have started out with mixed intention, and is getting an unduly heroic reception in some quarters. I for one wouldn't mind seeing European football torn down and rebuilt.

He started out by hacking a bank didnt he? Moved to Romania on his proceeds, saw some emails that showed that the "football game he loved" was being harmed so he started on a mission to expose it all. His actions didnt match his words tbh. I should probably read it again, but he came across as someone who made money ouot of his hacking exploits

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

this is not true. you can use illegally gained material as evidence, in some circumstances. It's circumstantial, as with a lot of things in law.

The discs containing all the MPs' expenses claims were stolen by a disgruntled employee at the Commons and handed to the Daily Telegraph. A few (too few) MPs ended up being prosecuted.

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

I wanted to be clear about the usage of material outside a court of law as that is the only place im aware of where there is a precedent for the usage of such material. The only reference to previous usage of such material was within CAS itself not by the regulator chambers, unless im mistaken.

 

[Citizen in Pakistan]

this is not true. you can use illegally gained material as evidence, in some circumstances. It's circumstantial, as with a lot of things in law.

This varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but your observation could be correct as far as criminal cases are concerned but not those of civil nature. A deeper research would be required but my gut feeling is you can't produce illegally collected material as evidence in our case.

My personal observation is that deep down UEFA knows they dont have a strong case against us but are pursuing with it to make the elite happy or saving face. Even if they manage to get us banned, i am 100% convinced it would be overturned on appeal and thats why they are having second thoughts about banning us as they know on appeal we have a strong case in a netural setting and dont want to go through that humiliation.

 

[bugsyblue]

You mean besides the successful theft of money from the Caymans bank and the attempted blackmail of clubs and agents?

I didn't know about the blackmail but theft from an offshore dodgy bank I shrug my shoulders...

 

[citytilllidie]

but whats in south india ?

Curry

 

[SWP's back]

This varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but your observation could be correct as far as criminal cases are concerned but not those of civil nature. A deeper research would be required but my gut feeling is you can't produce illegally collected material as evidence in our case.

You (they) absolutely can and the CAS has admitted this type of evidence before. It's Swiss Law, not UK Law, EU Law or Pakistani Law.

 

[SWP's back]

My personal observation is that deep down UEFA knows they dont have a strong case against us but are pursuing with it to make the elite happy or saving face. Even if they manage to get us banned, i am 100% convinced it would be overturned on appeal and thats why they are having second thoughts about banning us as they know on appeal we have a strong case in a netural setting and dont want to go through that humiliation.

This I totally agree with.

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

Lets all be clear about this
There is little doubt as to the veracity of the material in question and YES it can be used in civil cases within the Court of Arbitration for Sport as there is already a precedent for its usage in such appeal cases. (as we have not yet made as there has currently been no sanction passed down)
My question was as we haven't yet reached that stage of proceedings can the IC Adjuctary Chamber of Uefa as a regulator use such material legally to sanction. I was wondering if there was in fact a precedent for this as I wasn't aware of one.

 

[moomba]

Not sure how any court can use the emails as evidence unless the emails are going to be reproduced in full. As far as I know UEFA are relying on the newspaper reports of the emails, not the emails themselves.

 

[shemnel]

This varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction but your observation could be correct as far as criminal cases are concerned but not those of civil nature. A deeper research would be required but my gut feeling is you can't produce illegally collected material as evidence in our case.

My personal observation is that deep down UEFA knows they dont have a strong case against us but are pursuing with it to make the elite happy or saving face. Even if they manage to get us banned, i am 100% convinced it would be overturned on appeal and thats why they are having second thoughts about banning us as they know on appeal we have a strong case in a netural setting and dont want to go through that humiliation.

yes illegally obtained evidence can also be used in civil cases.