Liverpool thread 2018/19

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Copied is a long, detailed and pseudo-intellectual post on RAWK explaining why Heysel was not their fault. That club really is disgusting. Just fucking say sorry.

It beggars belief that it was ever deemed acceptable to hold a European Cup Final, or any major sporting event, in a stadium completely unfit for purpose. Elements from both fanbases were at fault for what unfolded, but pretty much everything seems to have failed on the day. Clearly, planning and preparation were woefully inadequate too. The perfect storm in many respects. Anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. It's easy and extremely lazy to simply blame Liverpool fans for what happened without actually looking deeper. Those who died, and all those who grieve for them to this day, deserve the truth. A minority of fans of both clubs are clearly culpable, but so too are those who were tasked with organising this event in a safe ground which was fit for purpose. Proper, considered preparation should have been in place. As it happened, all concerns about the stadium were wilfully ignored and all the numerous factors that contributed to this horrible disaster were left unaddressed, to run their course. With hindsight, the outcome was almost inevitable.

We all know how it goes when disasters happen. Organisations close ranks. People look for the convenient scapegoat. Fingers get pointed. Heads get placed in the sand. Blind eyes get turned. Of course, no one even tries to deny that a certain section of Liverpool fans directly contributed to the eventual outcome. But, so did the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own fans, the inactions of the police, the criminal neglect of those who 'organised' the Final, those who chose a crumbling relic of a ground to host the match despite fears being voiced about it and those who dismissed all concerns out of hand.

Pointing the finger at just one element/factor helps those who also contributed to squirm off the hook and off into the night. I helps those people to remain unaccountable for their neglect. It also betrays and disrespects every single victim of the dreadful tragedy that was Heysel. It betrays their grieving families too.
In Rome 1984 we saw where things might be heading. In Brussels 1985 we saw what happens when warnings and concerns are wilfully dismissed and people tasked with looking after the safety of thousands of people basically go to sleep on the job. We also saw how those in power wash their hands of responsibility, pick a handy scapegoat then absolve themselves of all responsibility. That, in itself, was also a warning sign of things to come after Hillsborough 1989.

Things of this magnitude don't just simply happen out of nowhere. They happen due to a catalogue of contributing factors all coming together at once. They come from neglect, and the ignoring of warnings and concerns. They come from people not taking responsibility. People not doing their jobs adequately. The actions of some fans from both clubs were the straw that broke the camels back, but make no mistake, there were many, many factors in place that allowed that eventuality to take place.
 
Hello Liverpool lurkers. Not many of you post here currently. Are you all at a vigil? With Virgil?

I lnow you lost four games in the quest for the Champions league, but you HAVE somehow scraped through to the 'Champions' ,(hahaha) League final.

You must be confident, eh?

After all, Klopp has appeared in SEVEN FINALS now, with his teams.

Oh, hang on a moment!!!!

Someone told me that Klopp has lost SIX of them.

Hmmmm......
 
Copied is a long, detailed and pseudo-intellectual post on RAWK explaining why Heysel was not their fault. That club really is disgusting. Just fucking say sorry.

It beggars belief that it was ever deemed acceptable to hold a European Cup Final, or any major sporting event, in a stadium completely unfit for purpose. Elements from both fanbases were at fault for what unfolded, but pretty much everything seems to have failed on the day. Clearly, planning and preparation were woefully inadequate too. The perfect storm in many respects. Anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. It's easy and extremely lazy to simply blame Liverpool fans for what happened without actually looking deeper. Those who died, and all those who grieve for them to this day, deserve the truth. A minority of fans of both clubs are clearly culpable, but so too are those who were tasked with organising this event in a safe ground which was fit for purpose. Proper, considered preparation should have been in place. As it happened, all concerns about the stadium were wilfully ignored and all the numerous factors that contributed to this horrible disaster were left unaddressed, to run their course. With hindsight, the outcome was almost inevitable.

We all know how it goes when disasters happen. Organisations close ranks. People look for the convenient scapegoat. Fingers get pointed. Heads get placed in the sand. Blind eyes get turned. Of course, no one even tries to deny that a certain section of Liverpool fans directly contributed to the eventual outcome. But, so did the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own fans, the inactions of the police, the criminal neglect of those who 'organised' the Final, those who chose a crumbling relic of a ground to host the match despite fears being voiced about it and those who dismissed all concerns out of hand.

Pointing the finger at just one element/factor helps those who also contributed to squirm off the hook and off into the night. I helps those people to remain unaccountable for their neglect. It also betrays and disrespects every single victim of the dreadful tragedy that was Heysel. It betrays their grieving families too.
In Rome 1984 we saw where things might be heading. In Brussels 1985 we saw what happens when warnings and concerns are wilfully dismissed and people tasked with looking after the safety of thousands of people basically go to sleep on the job. We also saw how those in power wash their hands of responsibility, pick a handy scapegoat then absolve themselves of all responsibility. That, in itself, was also a warning sign of things to come after Hillsborough 1989.

Things of this magnitude don't just simply happen out of nowhere. They happen due to a catalogue of contributing factors all coming together at once. They come from neglect, and the ignoring of warnings and concerns. They come from people not taking responsibility. People not doing their jobs adequately. The actions of some fans from both clubs were the straw that broke the camels back, but make no mistake, there were many, many factors in place that allowed that eventuality to take place.
It's amazing how many other clubs have played games in shitty stadiums, with indifferent police and aggressive opposition fans and not had the day end with tragedy. Liverpool clearly are just incredibly unlucky
 
It's the culture, Khaldoon is deferential to the more powerful Sheikh Mansour, that is their dynamic. Clearly Khaldoon is trusted and well liked and there are plenty of instances where there is laughter and conviviality, but the dynamic is always there. Pep has a different culture and a different dynamic with the Sheikh.

Pep works for Sheikh Mansour that's true, but on his own terms. We wanted Pep, waited for him, hired his two buddies and built an infrastructure just for him and one day he'll walk whether the Sheikh likes it or not, that's his power.

You are Mark Hughes and I claim my £5
 
I once had a conversation re heysel as such with a kopite and when i said how come there were never any injuries at fulham where they had a neutral section for decades? He said it was because there were no italians throwing missiles at the fulham neutral area.
There were other factors re heysel as there were re Hillsborough but fact remains had they not charged at the juve fans en mass there would have been no deaths.
When you have a situation where your club chairman blames it on chelsea fans the denial is strong.
Even now they are buying jarg tickets for Madrid for £30 knowing they may get them past any initial security checks.
 
Copied is a long, detailed and pseudo-intellectual post on RAWK explaining why Heysel was not their fault. That club really is disgusting. Just fucking say sorry.

It beggars belief that it was ever deemed acceptable to hold a European Cup Final, or any major sporting event, in a stadium completely unfit for purpose. Elements from both fanbases were at fault for what unfolded, but pretty much everything seems to have failed on the day. Clearly, planning and preparation were woefully inadequate too. The perfect storm in many respects. Anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. It's easy and extremely lazy to simply blame Liverpool fans for what happened without actually looking deeper. Those who died, and all those who grieve for them to this day, deserve the truth. A minority of fans of both clubs are clearly culpable, but so too are those who were tasked with organising this event in a safe ground which was fit for purpose. Proper, considered preparation should have been in place. As it happened, all concerns about the stadium were wilfully ignored and all the numerous factors that contributed to this horrible disaster were left unaddressed, to run their course. With hindsight, the outcome was almost inevitable.

We all know how it goes when disasters happen. Organisations close ranks. People look for the convenient scapegoat. Fingers get pointed. Heads get placed in the sand. Blind eyes get turned. Of course, no one even tries to deny that a certain section of Liverpool fans directly contributed to the eventual outcome. But, so did the appalling actions of some of Juventus' own fans, the inactions of the police, the criminal neglect of those who 'organised' the Final, those who chose a crumbling relic of a ground to host the match despite fears being voiced about it and those who dismissed all concerns out of hand.

Pointing the finger at just one element/factor helps those who also contributed to squirm off the hook and off into the night. I helps those people to remain unaccountable for their neglect. It also betrays and disrespects every single victim of the dreadful tragedy that was Heysel. It betrays their grieving families too.
In Rome 1984 we saw where things might be heading. In Brussels 1985 we saw what happens when warnings and concerns are wilfully dismissed and people tasked with looking after the safety of thousands of people basically go to sleep on the job. We also saw how those in power wash their hands of responsibility, pick a handy scapegoat then absolve themselves of all responsibility. That, in itself, was also a warning sign of things to come after Hillsborough 1989.

Things of this magnitude don't just simply happen out of nowhere. They happen due to a catalogue of contributing factors all coming together at once. They come from neglect, and the ignoring of warnings and concerns. They come from people not taking responsibility. People not doing their jobs adequately. The actions of some fans from both clubs were the straw that broke the camels back, but make no mistake, there were many, many factors in place that allowed that eventuality to take place.
What a grade A c@nt
 
Crazy looking back.
Since you insist, I'll repeat what I posted a few years ago.

On that night, we were on holiday in Cala Millor, Majorca. My wife stayed in the apartment to put our daughter to bed, and I went to watch the match in the Liverpool Bar down the road. I got there about half an hour before the KO, to be told that there'd been "some trouble" and some Juventus fans had been killed, but the game would still be played!
I'd had enough by half time, and went back to the apartment, telling my wife what had happened.

Fast forward about 30 years, and I went back to the bar, it was still there. I mentioned to the girls behind the bar (both scousers) about my last visit there, and they both said that they had never heard about Heysel! I won't go back there again.

Talk about airbrushing from history.
 
Since you insist, I'll repeat what I posted a few years ago.

On that night, we were on holiday in Cala Millor, Majorca. My wife stayed in the apartment to put our daughter to bed, and I went to watch the match in the Liverpool Bar down the road. I got there about half an hour before the KO, to be told that there'd been "some trouble" and some Juventus fans had been killed, but the game would still be played!
I'd had enough by half time, and went back to the apartment, telling my wife what had happened.

Fast forward about 30 years, and I went back to the bar, it was still there. I mentioned to the girls behind the bar (both scousers) about my last visit there, and they both said that they had never heard about Heysel! I won't go back there again.

Talk about airbrushing from history.

I can understand it isn't something they'd want to remember and try and forget. It was a shameful night in their famous history they love so much, but more respect should be shown on the anniversary.

To be fair to the girls they probably weren't born when it happened, or were very young. If not football fan's they probably haven't heard of it.

It riles me though when the media and themselves portray them as European royalty and ignore the shame they brought to this country on their violent, thieving rampages across Europe in those days. Not to forget the smashing up of opposition team coaches in the present day.
 
Chatting to a very old mate of mine last night, from Liverpool, season ticket holder. He's a top lad, was the first to text me to congratulate us after we beat Brighton, and even though he's not too fond of city at the minute, he understands it's purely just because of the current rivalry. He follows Liverpool all over the shop, but has decided not to go to Madrid because of the number of dicks following the club at the moment, and he's worried it's going to be nasty. As he said, he was there in Istanbul in 2005 (I helped him get a ticket), he's had his european dream day out and doesn't need this. Pretty mad hearing him say that.
I can guarantee there will be trouble in Madrid by both set of idiots and i hope nobody gets seriously injured or god forbid a loss of life. But if it did happen we wouldn’t have to worry about a city ban from Europe because UEFA would ban all English clubs again because of Liverpool.
 
I can guarantee there will be trouble in Madrid by both set of idiots and i hope nobody gets seriously injured or god forbid a loss of life. But if it did happen we wouldn’t have to worry about a city ban from Europe because UEFA would ban all English clubs again because of Liverpool.

If they lose I reckon they will be on the rampage. With their past and present history they should get a minimum five year ban, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
There’s no such thing as luck. Nor fate, destiny, omens or karma. It’s just preparation meeting opportunity or just pure physics and biomechanics.

A football is spherical and can bounce here or there, there are 22 players who can choose to or choose not to make efforts or make mistakes here and there, there are three officials making decisions that are often correct but sometimes incorrect. All of this coming together makes the chance of random things happening quite high.

“Luck” is something made up that the needy attribute to these random things happening in hindsight as some sort of justice or injustice depending on their viewpoint and allegiances.


And there was something between us and Liverpool this year: we achieved 1 more point, a +5 better GD, scored 6 more goals, we took 4 points off them and they only took one off us as we got a draw at their place and beat them at home.

Or, to put it another way.... Luck is just a word.

What matters is the connections we apply to the word :)

And there was something between us and Liverpool this year: we achieved 1 more point, a +5 better GD, scored 6 more goals......

& we did that with both KDB and Sergio out of action for large parts of the campaign, not to mention Fenandinho & Mendy being out of so many games..... Despite 'Liverpool having 3 freescoring forwards and an unbeatable defence' !!!
 
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I can guarantee there will be trouble in Madrid by both set of idiots and i hope nobody gets seriously injured or god forbid a loss of life. But if it did happen we wouldn’t have to worry about a city ban from Europe because UEFA would ban all English clubs again because of Liverpool.
If there was trouble, and I sincerely hope there isn't, I can't see UEFA banning all the English clubs again, primarily because the other teams would probably sue, stating rightly they are being punished for something they had fuck all to do with. There isn't the same mass problem with violence in football anymore, although buses need to be wary on merseyside.
 
If there was trouble, and I sincerely hope there isn't, I can't see UEFA banning all the English clubs again, primarily because the other teams would probably sue, stating rightly they are being punished for something they had fuck all to do with. There isn't the same mass problem with violence in football anymore, although buses need to be wary on merseyside.

There was a problem regarding the English in the 80s. Liverpool were the worst but not the only club to cause issues when they travelled. The football culture in this country has generally changed and is far worse in other places, where bans have been minor in general. Hopefully the CL final passes without incident. Hopefully it is a good game and a good advert for English football. And hopefully Spurs get the job done.
 
It's amazing how many other clubs have played games in shitty stadiums, with indifferent police and aggressive opposition fans and not had the day end with tragedy. Liverpool clearly are just incredibly unlucky
Theres a saying You make your own luck
 
I can guarantee there will be trouble in Madrid by both set of idiots and i hope nobody gets seriously injured or god forbid a loss of life. But if it did happen we wouldn’t have to worry about a city ban from Europe because UEFA would ban all English clubs again because of Liverpool.

Sadly Spurs have some idiots too. And equally sadly some Spurs fans enjoy how notorious the Spurs firm is. If there is trouble, i fear Spurs will be equally responsible.
 
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