You’ve illustrated the very problem with ffp.
All the cases that you quote, Milan,Chelsea , whoever, are very different cases from our own, yet uefa attempt to tackle them all with the same ‘one size fits all’ rules, instead of adopting a pragmatic and individual approach to each case.
Turning a profit doesn't stop you from building up debts you can't repay though, FFP focuses on the P&L when it should focus on the Balance Sheet. Chelsea have never come close to failing it, neither have the rags or Spurs, their balance sheets are all dodgy.Chelsea are the example of an owner that is using borrowings when he also "has" the money, he could simply do what we do but he hasn't chosen too.
The debt situation is kind of dealt with by FFP, Everton are an example I used earlier, if their owner requested his money back then the repayments would result in them failing. Using Chelsea again they wouldn't be able to get into the 1.2bn debt in the first place with FFP.
Man Utd's situation is virtually impossible to do anything about, it's a case of the horse has bolted.
Nobody is arguing it's fair but it was it is, we are the one in a million and they have to build the rules based on the less fortunate.
Chelsea are the example of an owner that is using borrowings when he also "has" the money, he could simply do what we do but he hasn't chosen too.
The debt situation is kind of dealt with by FFP, Everton are an example I used earlier, if their owner requested his money back then the repayments would result in them failing. Using Chelsea again they wouldn't be able to get into the 1.2bn debt in the first place with FFP.
Man Utd's situation is virtually impossible to do anything about, it's a case of the horse has bolted.
Nobody is arguing it's fair but it was it is, we are the one in a million and they have to build the rules based on the less fortunate.
Turning a profit doesn't stop you from building up debts you can't repay though, FFP focuses on the P&L when it should focus on the Balance Sheet. Chelsea have never come close to failing it, neither have the rags or Spurs, their balance sheets are all dodgy.
The horse hasn't bolted with the rags, FFP could easily require them to reduce their debt by a certain percentage every 3 years instead of focusing on us not going above a certain level of investment every 3 years.
It could require other clubs to show that any debt level raise has a business plan behind it that insures it can be repaid, that would have stopped Leeds, Portsmouth, Milan etc from getting into the trouble they did.
I would agree on reducing debt, that would be a very long term plan though, Chelsea would need 30 years to clear there's. I'm not familiar with debt levels across Europe but I assume the big clubs all have massive debt piles.
Chelsea would need RA to be forced to convert his asset of debt owed to him into an asset of equity, then he'd need to protect the club value to protect his asset and they'd be a lot better. Other clubs would just have to bite the bullet and look after the financial health, Madrid have taken the piss for years.I would agree on reducing debt, that would be a very long term plan though, Chelsea would need 30 years to clear there's. I'm not familiar with debt levels across Europe but I assume the big clubs all have massive debt piles.
Chelsea would need RA to be forced to convert his asset of debt owed to him into an asset of equity, then he'd need to protect the club value to protect his asset and they'd be a lot better. Other clubs would just have to bite the bullet and look after the financial health, Madrid have taken the piss for years.
But in those scenarios you wouldn't say to a club "wipe out your debt in the next 3 years". You'd tell them "bring it down by 20% in the next 3 years".
There's the problem. UEFA went to the G14+5 as they're their bitch, they should be going to all clubs and with all clubs they could well have gotten in voted through. The more UEFA protect and shelter that cartel, the more powerful the cartel will become and the more impotent and ineffective UEFA become. It's vicious circle territory and it'll destroy the sport if it's not fixed.FFP was signed off by the club's, you would never get agreement on debt reduction.
There's the problem. UEFA went to the G14+5 as they're their bitch, they should be going to all clubs and with all clubs they could well have gotten in voted through. The more UEFA protect and shelter that cartel, the more powerful the cartel will become and the more impotent and ineffective UEFA become. It's vicious circle territory and it'll destroy the sport if it's not fixed.
Not bloody yet it hasn't. If UEFA takes steps to rebalance wealth and influence among clubs eventually they'll get themselves into a position to tell the cartel to fuck off. The biggest reason a super league hasn't happened is the Premier League and the fact that the big Premier League clubs need the league+CL format more than a super league. That's UEFA's strongest ground. They need to pressure the other leagues to become more like that and realise that football isn't just about the CL. They need to push funding into the leagues outside of the big 5 and increase their quality, reach and influence. Therefore diluting the cartels. They fucking badly need to start bringing in executives that don't have G14+5 connections and are looking to twist the agenda to suit their own clubs as has so obviously happened with this. It will take not just strong but quality leadership but it can be done, more influential cartels have been smashed and not by arms either.That's another horse that has already bolted.
FFP was signed off by the club's, you would never get agreement on debt reduction.
This is hardly analogous. The rules are basically saying that we can't use our own money to build a Formula 1 car that is faster than everyone else's. Instead, we have to stick with our old banger and hopefully win enough races against those cars which are currently the fastest (and built with similar investment to our own) so that the prize money builds up and we can improve our car over time. All this whilst allowing the owners of the fastest cars to rig the races in their favour by constantly changing the rules and picking off any outstanding drivers we might have by offering much higher wages. Fuck that for a set of rules.Reading through this thread I can't help but feel people are missing the woods from the trees. Laws/rules are implemented for the lowest common denominator at all levels of society, be it rules of the road or FFP. While we are getting shafted for allegedly breaking those rules they are still rules, we can't just say the rules are shit because we have loads of money just like you can't drive at 200mph in a 60mph zone if your car is capable of it and you are a trained formula one driver.
We live in hope :-)there's nothing in the rules that's going to stop the Glazers taking out a $2.5 billion loan against their shares and making the club repay it, crippling them in the process and driving them into bankruptcy.
Not at all mate, as much as I love to hate those ****s I'd rather put legislation in place to stop that happening as it would protect other clubs that are fucking vital to their communities. However if the rags were the first club it happened to and then they brought the legislation in that'd be fucking great.We live in hope :-)
So long as its not retrospective :)Not at all mate, as much as I love to hate those ****s I'd rather put legislation in place to stop that happening as it would protect other clubs that are fucking vital to their communities. However if the rags were the first club it happened to and then they brought the legislation in that'd be fucking great.
Excellent analogy.This is hardly analogous. The rules are basically saying that we can't use our own money to build a Formula 1 car that is faster than everyone else's. Instead, we have to stick with our old banger and hopefully win enough races against those cars which are currently the fastest (and built with similar investment to our own) so that the prize money builds up and we can improve our car over time. All this whilst allowing the owners of the fastest cars to rig the races in their favour by constantly changing the rules and picking off any outstanding drivers we might have by offering much higher wages. Fuck that for a set of rules.
It's more like we were doing 60 mph in a 60 mph zone, then they reduced the speed limit to 55 mph and gave us a speeding ticket.we can't just say the rules are shit because we have loads of money just like you can't drive at 200mph in a 60mph zone if your car is capable of it and you are a trained formula one driver.
Nobody is arguing it's fair but it was it is, we are the one in a million and they have to build the rules based on the less fortunate.
Agree will all that, however I would say mafia still going strong so don’t share you optimismNot bloody yet it hasn't. If UEFA takes steps to rebalance wealth and influence among clubs eventually they'll get themselves into a position to tell the cartel to fuck off. The biggest reason a super league hasn't happened is the Premier League and the fact that the big Premier League clubs need the league+CL format more than a super league. That's UEFA's strongest ground. They need to pressure the other leagues to become more like that and realise that football isn't just about the CL. They need to push funding into the leagues outside of the big 5 and increase their quality, reach and influence. Therefore diluting the cartels. They fucking badly need to start bringing in executives that don't have G14+5 connections and are looking to twist the agenda to suit their own clubs as has so obviously happened with this. It will take not just strong but quality leadership but it can be done, more influential cartels have been smashed and not by arms either.
And now saying they have someone who saw us on our mobile phone at the time (not an offence then)It's more like we were doing 60 mph in a 60 mph zone, then they reduced the speed limit to 55 mph and gave us a speeding ticket.