The Labour Party

[Ban-jani]

and they're off

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48909477

Good riddance

 

[Rascal]

ASLEF
Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers (railways – drivers, operational supervisors and staff)

BFAWU
Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union – food industry

Community
Industries in and around steel, metal and textile communities

CWU
Communication Workers Union – post and telecommunications

FBU
Fire Brigades Union – firefighters and other workers within fire and rescue services

GMB
For general workers in public and private sectors

MU
Musicians Union – performers, writers and teachers in the music industry

NUM
National Union of Mineworkers

TSSA
Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association – railways, London Underground, travel, haulage, shipping

UNISON
The public service union for all those providing services to the public whether employed in the public, private or voluntary sectors

Unite
For general workers in the public and private sectors

USDAW
Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers – retail, distributive and related industries

Is there a point to this post?

 

[cibaman]

Breaking News: Trade Unions decide they want a second referendum 'Government Deal' or 'Remain' with the Labour Party backing Remain.
Len not happy.

But what would be their policy if there’s a general election?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Is there a point to this post?

There never is with him.

You'll find there are a number of right wing posters in here who spit out Dacre like gobbets of reactionary nonsense all the time, they naturally refuse to answer, or even acknowledge, any counter arguments, as they're clearly talking common sense! They are the self-appointed "authentic" voice of moderation on every topic. Consequently they have their arses handed to them on a regular basis, then they flounce off with what they hope is a witty goodbye, only to immediately re-emerge with more nonsense.

And so it goes on.

It's very tiresome and gentle souls like me are worn down by it, their stupidity however is never worn down, it's relentless.

As to the point of his post? You might as well look for the motivation in a lump of wood.

 

[George Hannah]

ASLEF
Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers (railways – drivers, operational supervisors and staff)

BFAWU
Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union – food industry

Community
Industries in and around steel, metal and textile communities

CWU
Communication Workers Union – post and telecommunications

FBU
Fire Brigades Union – firefighters and other workers within fire and rescue services

GMB
For general workers in public and private sectors

MU
Musicians Union – performers, writers and teachers in the music industry

NUM
National Union of Mineworkers

TSSA
Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association – railways, London Underground, travel, haulage, shipping

UNISON
The public service union for all those providing services to the public whether employed in the public, private or voluntary sectors

Unite
For general workers in the public and private sectors

USDAW
Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers – retail, distributive and related industries

Is there a point to this post?

Obviously it's a list of the Labour affiliated unions referred to in the preceding post (but unidentified so far on the thread) who have kicked their members' democratic wishes under a bus by now backing Remain and a second referendum. So much for your Lexit comeback eh? More of a farewell tour to empty houses.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Is there a point to this post?

Case in point...

Obviously it's a list of the Labour affiliated unions referred to in the preceding post (but unidentified so far on the thread) who have kicked their members' democratic wishes under a bus by now backing Remain and a second referendum. So much for your Lexit comeback eh? More of a farewell tour to empty houses.

Trade Union leaders are not bound by the result of the referendum, they are there to represent the interests of their members, this is self evident, a point so obvious it's almost embarrassing to have to mention it.

Good old George swerves this quite deliberately in the hope you'll bite, you will then waste your time nailing his arse to the wall, then he'll crawl away with some gobshite two fingered farewell, only to come back and crank the nonsense up again.

Oh, he has a tendency to go all sixth form debating society as well, in the hope you'll mistake it for deep insight....

lol - poor fumble, so much to put up with and with such forebearance and generosity of spirit. A role model for thoughtful calm debate, if only there was ever a minute particle of meaningful content in his continuous flow of silver-veined prose.

 

[George Hannah]

... gentle souls like me

lol - poor fumble, so much to put up with and with such forebearance and generosity of spirit. A role model for thoughtful calm debate, if only there was ever a minute particle of meaningful content in his continuous flow of silver-veined prose.
case in point..

Trade Union leaders are not bound by the result of the referendum, they are there to represent the interests of their members, this is self evident, a point so obvious it's almost embarrassing to have to mention it.

It is embarrassing in a situation where their members interests have been clearly contradicted. The Party knows best eh?

 

[Ban-jani]

Case in point...


Trade Union leaders are not bound by the result of the referendum, they are there to represent the interests of their members, this is self evident, a point so obvious it's almost embarrassing to have to mention it.

Good old George swerves this quite deliberately in the hope you'll bite, you will then waste your time nailing his arse to the wall, then he'll crawl away with some gobshite two fingered farewell, only to come back and crank the nonsense up again.

Oh, he has a tendency to go sixth form debating society as well, in the hope you'll mistake it for deep insight....

It’s all part of the betrayal argument, that the Right in Britain are pushing.

You can’t even begin to speak with those who are pushing for Brexit from a Right Wing point of view, you can see it on this forum now too, the debate is gone, as they just display classic Right Wing tactics of inventing a betrayal and making it all about identity.

 

[George Hannah]

It’s all part of the betrayal argument, that the Right in Britain are pushing.

You can’t even begin to speak with those who are pushing for Brexit from a Right Wing point of view, you can see it on this forum now too, the debate is gone, as they just display classic Right Wing tactics of inventing a betrayal and making it all about identity.

You mean the 'democracy should be respected' argument about to be ditched by the Labour Party.

 

[The perfect fumble]

It’s all part of the betrayal argument, that the Right in Britain are pushing.

You can’t even begin to speak with those who are pushing for Brexit from a Right Wing point of view, you can see it on this forum now too, the debate is gone, as they just display classic Right Wing tactics of inventing a betrayal and making it all about identity.

There's never been an economic argument for Brexit.

The sovereignty argument is laughable, we'll be more in thrall to the vagaries of globalisation and American foreign policy out than in.

All we have now is little englanders, fascists, fools, neoliberal gobshites and charlatans trying desperately to get this shit show over the line.

Whatever the aspirations leavers had back in 2016, they can forget them, they're now being sold down the fucking river by a bunch of lying despicable arse wipes.

 

[Ban-jani]

You mean the 'democracy should be respected' argument about to be ditched by the Labour Party.

Democracy has been respected.

You want to read some stuff by Peter Hitchens, a prominent Leave supporter, on the constitutional crisis and inability to implement, a referendum on EU membership would bring. He wrote and said this prior to 2016.

Parliament voted overwhelmingly in favour of triggering Article 50, nearly all MP’s have voted in favour of at least one flavour of Brexit, it’s just that because of the generality and unspecified nature of the two choice option, everyone is now arguing on which way to leave.

What should have happened is either leave through a party being elected on the basis of a clear plan to leave or if we must go to a referendum, have two and make the 2nd about which way we leave.

I’m not completely and utterly against leaving, now we have voted to do so, I mean don’t tell me it’s a good idea but a part of me thinks we should leave now we voted for it, I just want at least some of the promises made in 2016 are kept, and we can ensure we don’t go into a recession and we can get around the Irish Border issue.

 

[George Hannah]

Whatever the aspirations leavers had back in 2016, they can forget them, they're now being sold down the fucking river by a bunch of lying despicable arse wipes.

Cue the Labour Party and their affiliated unions. So eloquently put.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You mean the 'democracy should be respected' argument about to be ditched by the Labour Party.

More idiocy.

Labour, like the Tories, has three masters depending on state.

In government they must represent the interests of all citizens (in theory anyway).

In opposition they must straddle the interests of all citizens (as a government in waiting) with the interests of their members and supporters.

And as a party, with no immediate prospect of power, it represents the interests of its members and supporters.

Once you see it that way, having a Brexit policy dependant on state makes perfect sense, if not good politics.

You'll never get this.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You mean the 'democracy should be respected' argument about to be ditched by the Labour Party.

Democracy is an ongoing process. You dont have one vote and honor it for eternity. That is more like religion. Democracy is a mechanism for change. We have had 1 GE and 1 EU election since that referendum and things are changing, we are about to have our 3rd PM and another GE. Things change. The facts on the ground change. The 2016 Referendum becomes less valid with every passing day. We are over a 1000 days since that referendum and there has been zero progress - that is a clear failure. When policy fails you eventually adopt a new policy.

If anything Labour denied its members democracy when it stitched up the conference motion last October to pass a long worded fudge. That has rankled the membership ever since. There is another conference on the horizon and they won't stand for the same again, there is also the prospect of a GE that will require a solid position in a manifesto. Corbyns cretins know this and they are trying to square the circle now. However, it won't wash. They are way behind the curve. They have lost the trust of masses of remainers who have seen them agonise and cling on to there leave credentials. They have been on the sidelines so long they will have no credibility arguing on either side.

As a leaver - why would you vote for Labour which is a party full of remainers.

As a remainer - why would you vote for Labour which has ignored its clear remain majority of members/core voters for 3 years.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Cue the Labour Party and their affiliated unions. So eloquently put.

Are you some kind of shill or troll? I've never subscribed to this sort of thing, but your stupidity is almost automatic, it's too thick and monotonous to be entirely genuine knownothingness.

 

[Rascal]

Obviously it's a list of the Labour affiliated unions referred to in the preceding post (but unidentified so far on the thread) who have kicked their members' democratic wishes under a bus by now backing Remain and a second referendum. So much for your Lexit comeback eh? More of a farewell tour to empty houses.

Obviously it wasn't, it was just a list of Unions. That is why I asked what the point of it was.

If the leaders of those Unions have gone against the wishes of the members, they will not get re-elected as leaders. It is their business. Did Unions actually vote on what stance each individual Union should take? I am not aware of whether they did or did not so I will await the evidence that you will provide that the leadership have taken this stunning decision.

 

[Ban-jani]

There's never been an economic argument for Brexit.

The sovereignty argument is laughable, we'll be more in thrall to the vagaries of globalisation and American foreign policy out than in.

All we have now is little englanders, fascists, fools, neoliberal gobshites and charlatans trying desperately to get this shit show over the line.

Whatever the aspirations leavers had back in 2016, they can forget them, they're now being sold down the fucking river by a bunch of lying despicable arse wipes.

Absolutely.

I think Labour have finally realised whatever views they had on a positive way of leaving are well dead, considering the buffoons and cretins leading this, and have decided that they need to back remain to ensure we’re not going cap in hand to Trump.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Absolutely.

I think Labour have finally realised whatever views they had on a positive way of leaving are well dead, considering the buffoons and cretins leading this, and have decided that they need to back remain to ensure we’re not going cap in hand to Trump.

We're not there yet.

 

[George Hannah]

Democracy has been respected.
You want to read some stuff by Peter Hitchens, a prominent Leave supporter, on the constitutional crisis and inability to implement, a referendum on EU membership would bring. He wrote and said this prior to 2016.
Parliament voted overwhelmingly in favour of triggering Article 50, nearly all MP’s have voted in favour of at least one flavour of Brexit, it’s just that because of the generality and unspecified nature of the two choice option, everyone is now arguing on which way to leave.
What should have happened is either leave through a party being elected on the basis of a clear plan to leave or if we must go to a referendum, have two and make the 2nd about which way we leave.
I’m not completely and utterly against leaving, now we have voted to do so, I mean don’t tell me it’s a good idea but a part of me thinks we should leave now we voted for it, I just want at least some of the promises made in 2016 are kept, and we can ensure we don’t go into a recession and we can get around the Irish Border issue.

Referencing Peter Hitchens is a very brave act on this forum but he's had some valuable things to say in the Brexit debate including on yesterday's Politic Live. I agree with much of what you say but I have always thought it was a good idea to leave though in an organized way to mitigate the inevitable short term economic damage.

Once you see it that way, having a Brexit policy dependant on state makes perfect sense, if not good politics.
You'll never get this.
More idiocy.
Labour, like the Tories, has three masters depending on state.
In government they must represent the interests of all citizens (in theory anyway).
In opposition they must straddle the interests of all citizens (as a government in waiting) with the interests of their members and supporters.
And as a party, with no immediate prospect of power, it represents the interests of its members and supporters.
Once you see it that way, having a Brexit policy dependant on state makes perfect sense, if not good politics.
You'll never get this.

You're right I don't get it because it's more incoherent babble. You are a tiresome fellow fumble and should spend less time decorating your posts with mindless insults and more thinking about the reality of the Labour Party's desperate predicament and how it can rescued.

 

[Ban-jani]

We're not there yet.

We are if we are going off the noise in the last 48 hours.