Another new Brexit thread

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blueinsa said:
Macron and Merkel and no doubt her replacement are well known federalists.

The EU will continue to do their bidding in that regards and due to the power they hold the rest of the EU will as usual be taken along for the ride.

To deny the federalist dreams and aims of the EU is head in the sand stuff imo.
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I'm not denying the federalist dreams, in fact I've agreed that there are many that hold that vision. However there are also many that don't; certainly enough to make it far from a formality that it will happen. With us in the EU, as the largest anti-federalist country, we would be the focal point for any anti-federalist sentiment and we would have support from several countries whose views might have been given less consideration without a large country taking the lead.
 
west didsblue said:
I'm not denying the federalist dreams, in fact I've agreed that there are many that hold that vision. However there are also many that don't; certainly enough to make it far from a formality that it will happen. With us in the EU, as the largest anti-federalist country, we would be the focal point for any anti-federalist sentiment and we would have support from several countries whose views might have been given less consideration without a large country taking the lead.
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So we are back to constant political squabbling. The UK being the one saying no all the time. The black sheep in a dysfunctional family.

I literally see no point in is being that.
 
blueinsa said:
So we are back to constant political squabbling. The UK being the one saying no all the time. The black sheep in a dysfunctional family.

I literally see no point in is being that.
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That's just normal politics. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
blueinsa said:
So we are back to constant political squabbling. The UK being the one saying no all the time. The black sheep in a dysfunctional family.

I literally see no point in is being that.
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Not even because it's been good for our economy and no one in the UK was really interested in or bothered by the squabbling?

And out of the EU are we going to be free of political squabbling (aka democracy)?
 
Rascal said:
There really is little point in engaging with you when you believe such wild conspiracy theories.

I have told you before that taking inspiration from Marx does not make you a Marxist just as taking inspiration from Salazar would not make you a Fascist. The Labour party is a democratic organisation and nothing can be done, no manifesto agreed without the members agreement. That of course in your head will mean everyone who is a Labour party member is a Marxist.

There is a huge difference between overthrowing Capitalism and changing Capitalism so it works for everyone not just the few. Of course you will not understand that because of your wild reds under the bed conspiracy nonsense.
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Yet again when confronted by the facts you complain about 'wild conspiracy theories'. What exactly is inaccurate in my description of the extremist Labour Party leadership?
You're also very fond of 'telling' people what they think - for example 'in my head' every LP member is a Marxist, as is anybody influenced by Marx. Please resist stereotyping those who disagree with you and perhaps reflect on precisely how, should Mr McDonnell et al take power, they can 'transform' the evil capitalist system without ruining our economy and the public services which depend upon it.
 
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From fact checker:
Claim
Emmanuel Macron said the UK will only be allowed to stay in the EU if they fully adopt all EU rules and regulations including adopting the Euro within six months of stopping Brexit.

Conclusion
He hasn’t said this. If the UK remained in the EU we would have to continue following EU law, but not in areas where we have opt-outs. This means we wouldn’t have to join the Euro.

Why is it inevitable that we will be further integrated into the EU when history tells us we have opted out of those elements we don't like?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
From fact checker:
Claim
Emmanuel Macron said the UK will only be allowed to stay in the EU if they fully adopt all EU rules and regulations including adopting the Euro within six months of stopping Brexit.

Conclusion
He hasn’t said this. If the UK remained in the EU we would have to continue following EU law, but not in areas where we have opt-outs. This means we wouldn’t have to join the Euro.

Why is it inevitable that we will be further integrated into the EU when history tells us we have opted out of those elements we don't like?
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Exactly.......
 
Saddleworth2 said:
From fact checker:
Claim
Emmanuel Macron said the UK will only be allowed to stay in the EU if they fully adopt all EU rules and regulations including adopting the Euro within six months of stopping Brexit.

Conclusion
He hasn’t said this. If the UK remained in the EU we would have to continue following EU law, but not in areas where we have opt-outs. This means we wouldn’t have to join the Euro.

Why is it inevitable that we will be further integrated into the EU when history tells us we have opted out of those elements we don't like?
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I found this wikipage is a useful summary of the current EU proposals for accelerating integration of the core Eurozone countries.
 
George Hannah said:
I found this wikipage is a useful summary of the current EU proposals for accelerating integration of the core Eurozone countries.
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Thanks for posting George. Its an interesting description that clearly shows how the UK has managed to stay none conformist in areas it doesn't believe are in our national interests. There was nothing in the article that made me think further integration is inevitable though.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
From fact checker:
Claim
Emmanuel Macron said the UK will only be allowed to stay in the EU if they fully adopt all EU rules and regulations including adopting the Euro within six months of stopping Brexit.

Conclusion
He hasn’t said this. If the UK remained in the EU we would have to continue following EU law, but not in areas where we have opt-outs. This means we wouldn’t have to join the Euro.

Why is it inevitable that we will be further integrated into the EU when history tells us we have opted out of those elements we don't like?
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So where did the fake news come from?
 
George Hannah said:
Yet again when confronted by the facts you complain about 'wild conspiracy theories'. What exactly is inaccurate in my description of the extremist Labour Party leadership?
You're also very fond of 'telling' people what they think - for example 'in my head' every LP member is a Marxist, as is anybody influenced by Marx. Please resist stereotyping those who disagree with you and perhaps reflect on precisely how, should Mr McDonnell et al take power, they can 'transform' the evil capitalist system without ruining our economy and the public services which depend upon it.
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Not entirely convinced that taking the railways or water companies back into public ownership is going to lead us all into ruination. Besides most of you complaining about ruining the economy under Labour are quite happy to risk ruining the economy over Brexit so I don’t think you are that ‘concerned’ about the economy as you claim.
 
Vic said:
So where did the fake news come from?
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screenshot-macron.jpg


Versions of this post—about what French President Emmanuel Macron is demanding if the UK wants to stay in the EU—have been shared over 16,000 times on Facebook.
 
bluethrunthru said:
wow - on Facebook you say? Well then it MUST be true lol
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Sigh, I didn't say it was true. Like many things on Social media though, I have heard people reference it as true.

I was trying to find evidence as to why it was 'inevitable' that there be further integration if we remain in the EU. Thats the question I asked. Do you have evidence?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I'm trying to find evidence as to why it is inevitable that the UK will be further integrated into the EU if we remain. That being this mornings certainty. I cant find any so have asked our BM chums to help.
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There couldn’t ever be evidence for it, unless some sort of document was leaked from Brussels, explaining their plans, but such document probably doesn’t exist.

I really do not buy the line that we should leave because of what may happen.
 
Ban-jani said:
There couldn’t ever be evidence for it, unless some sort of document was leaked from Brussels, explaining their plans, but such document probably doesn’t exist.

I really do not buy the line that we should leave because of what may happen.
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it is central to a great deal of rationale to leave. All the evidence I see though is that when we don't like something we opt out. We are by a mile the least compliant nation. That for me is evidence. There must be more than 'I think this or that might happen' surely?
 
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