The Conservative Party

Bluemanc100 said:
It's a shit-sandwich as I said in an earlier post but overruling the vote we have already taken as a nation would mean that our entire way of government is finished... it's a shambles but wouldn't this be the final straw?

I don't get the sheer lack of optimism for a no-deal and I'm a pessimist by nature... All I have heard are things that "might" happen... but will they?

David Cameron seems to be getting away with all of this scot-free by the way... without his piss poor negotiations at the EU then the referendum might never have happened. Or he was never going to get the changes he asked for and this is therefore all his fault...
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make up your own mind how far Cameron got against what he asked for from this article:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105
I read it to remind myself and he got a good proportion of what he asked for.

Overriding the vote which is the result of an advisory referendum shouldn't mean the end of the world as we know it. Th referendum was advisory albeit the Tory and Labour parties pledged to honour the result. It wont be the first or last time a fundamental part of a party manifesto has not been implemented. The fact that we are no nearer an agreed Brexit solution after three years tends to suggest that there isn't one that would be acceptable to the majority. 'No deal' would be a disaster for the country on multiple levels. It would impact on our businesses, jobs, the health service, transport. Every projection wether by the IMF, the Bank of England or whoever, indicates a very significant impact on the UK economy.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
No it’s all about the distribution of HIS resources . He can do what the fuck he wants with his own money and if he cures a form of cancer brilliant it’s much more worthwhile than spunking it on flash cars and yachts

Meanwhile we can distribute the collective resources of the rest of us as we please
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OK.

I am super rich and I want to build myself a palace the like of which has never been seen before. I hire every bricklayer in the country, every plasterer, every electrician, every plumber and so on.

What happens to all the houses that need to be repaired, built, maintained etc?

Going back to the first example, those 1000 top oncologists leaving the NHS would impact the service greatly.

I am with Jeremy Bentham on this.

"the greatest good for the greatest number while creating the least amount of harm or preventing the greatest amount of suffering".
 
BobKowalski said:
In fairness I think it’s not the money but the utilisation of resources such as expertise in the necessary fields to cure the cancer which then has an adverse effect on other programs working to combat other cancers which could lead to more deaths in the long run.

If you had ten programs and poached the top two staff from all of them by offering better pay etc you are prioritising one program at the expense of others.
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Give over bob you sound like someone from uefa talking about city ruining football because we buy the best players ....
 
robbieh said:
OK.

I am super rich and I want to build myself a palace the like of which has never been seen before. I hire every bricklayer in the country, every plasterer, every electrician, every plumber and so on.

What happens to all the houses that need to be repaired, built, maintained etc?

Going back to the first example, those 1000 top oncologists leaving the NHS would impact the service greatly.

I am with Jeremy Bentham on this.

"the greatest good for the greatest number while creating the least amount of harm or preventing the greatest amount of suffering".
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All the plumbers bricklayers etc have already left because of Brexit
 
bluejon said:
And this complete shit show is a perfect example as to why direct democracy was not the form adopted by the majority of governments in the time since we moved over to democratic forms of government.
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We've always done well enough with it tbf.
 
robbieh said:
I´d like to posit an idea. Super rich fella has a type of terminal cancer, that only a handful of people worldwide suffer from. He creates a hospital and staffs it with the best 1000 oncologists from around the world who work tirelessly to find a cure for him and the other 5 sufferers.

The idea that we are all equal because we each have a vote is a mirage. And as the disparity between rich and poor widens this type of thing will be the new norm.

It´s not envy of the super rich bloke but sadness that his ability to distort the market means that other will pay the price.
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That got a big woosh.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Socialist annoyed that a bloke spends his own money to find a cure for a form of terminal cancer for himself and other sufferers of the disease.

I don’t even know where to start
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Naive Bloke doesn't understand how the system works..........

UK taxpayer funds (£30 million) research into Parkinsons.

Gov hands research over to drug companies......

Drug company makes billions by charging a fortune to the NHS (the taxpayer who funded the research in the first place)

true story

 
BobKowalski said:
Oh for crying out loud it won’t be finished. It’s a referendum. A snap shot in time not the second coming of Christ. You could win a referendum to mine the fucking moon for Swiss Cheese but it still ain’t happening. And Cameron got the best deal he was ever going to get. It isn’t up to 27 other European nations to wipe our arses everytime we soil ourselves in a tantrum about what we fucking want. Jeez. How about we grow the fuck up and start living in the real fucking world.
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You can rant all you like but It would actually be a second referendum .... that’s the point.. i.e. we didn’t like the outcome of v1 so let’s have another... that’s a big “fuck off” to the nation or perhaps to the voters anyway
 
Bluemanc100 said:
David Cameron seems to be getting away with all of this scot-free by the way... without his piss poor negotiations at the EU then the referendum might never have happened. Or he was never going to get the changes he asked for and this is therefore all his fault...
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Certainly not making any excuses for Cameron - but what has come to light since the referendum is that he was working with the likes of Rogers in those negotiations

No wonder the EU never felt they need to make any movement. I have continually said that the EU will not make movement until they are faced with the a viable walk-away option and the political will to use it. We should have been working full-steam for 3 years on putting in place the initiatives/programme to allow us to have a viable No-Deal.

That, IMO, was an obvious fact then - and is a glaringly obvious fact now.
 
Bluemanc100 said:
You can rant all you like but It would actually be a second referendum .... that’s the point.. i.e. we didn’t like the outcome of v1 so let’s have another... that’s a big “fuck off” to the nation or perhaps to the voters anyway
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However... the outcome of the first is undeliverable v's what was offered. Its a massive mess. This is undeniable. If the HoC continue to block the rubbish deals or no deals then that is for a good reason, nothing presented so far has any popular support.

Ultimately if we have a GE - the second since the Ref and a majority Remain HoC is elected then we are not going to leave. The reasoning as to why is that 1. the easy deal / terms on which we leave failed to be delivered and 2. the complications that leavers did not address before Vote 1 were not solved.

You can not keep trying and failing over and over. Something has to give. Failed policies get abandoned or governments get removed, that is how our democracy works. Brexit is a failure - up there with the Poll tax.
 
Bluemanc100 said:
You can rant all you like but It would actually be a second referendum .... that’s the point.. i.e. we didn’t like the outcome of v1 so let’s have another... that’s a big “fuck off” to the nation or perhaps to the voters anyway
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How is it a "fuck off" to voters by having another vote?

It's more of an "Are you sure?"

Not that I particularly want another one. But if there is one it can't be Remain v No Deal, it has to be Remain vs A Deal. There can't be an option that has no viable plan. parliament won't allow it. So then we come to what plan...? The only plan, that has agreement from HMG and the EU, has failed to pass Parliament, so how can we vote on something Parliament won't pass? Which brings us back to the beginning of the infinite loop!

IMO Brexit is long dead and someone needs to have the balls to revoke A50 so we can unlock all the stockpiles and postponed investment.


Whoever finally flushes the turd will go down as a national/international hero, given the inevitable boom and collective sigh of relief that will follow across most of Europe. I still hold out a hope/belief that Boris Johnson just might be the person to do that and get away with it.
 
1.618034 said:
How is it a "fuck off" to voters by having another vote?

It's more of an "Are you sure?"

Not that I particularly want another one. But if there is one it can't be Remain v No Deal, it has to be Remain vs A Deal. There can't be an option that has no viable plan. parliament won't allow it. So then we come to what plan...? The only plan, that has agreement from HMG and the EU, has failed to pass Parliament, so how can we vote on something Parliament won't pass? Which brings us back to the beginning of the infinite loop!

IMO Brexit is long dead and someone needs to have the balls to revoke A50 so we can unlock all the stockpiles and postponed investment.


Whoever finally flushes the turd will go down as a national/international hero, given the inevitable boom and collective sigh of relief that will follow across most of Europe. I still hold out a hope/belief that Boris Johnson just might be the person to do that and get away with it.
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That's not as far fetched as it sounds.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Naive Bloke doesn't understand how the system works..........

UK taxpayer funds (£30 million) research into Parkinsons.

Gov hands research over to drug companies......

Drug company makes billions by charging a fortune to the NHS (the taxpayer who funded the research in the first place)

true story

Click to expand...


That’s a completely different example to the one your mate used. The one you describe is wrong.

Or is this thread so silly now you respond to people with a completely different illustration to the one I responded to which was about a rich bloke spending HIS OWN MONEY to cure a form of cancer.

Your illustration is about thePUBLIC MONEY being used and exploited by drug companies. Which is wrong.
 
Bluemanc100 said:
It's a shit-sandwich as I said in an earlier post but overruling the vote we have already taken as a nation would mean that our entire way of government is finished... it's a shambles but wouldn't this be the final straw?

I don't get the sheer lack of optimism for a no-deal and I'm a pessimist by nature... All I have heard are things that "might" happen... but will they?

David Cameron seems to be getting away with all of this scot-free by the way... without his piss poor negotiations at the EU then the referendum might never have happened. Or he was never going to get the changes he asked for and this is therefore all his fault...
Click to expand...

Cameron got most of what he wanted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105
 
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