Another new Brexit thread

[Rascal]

I know it’s warm today

Hardened labour leave voters will jump ship to Boris or bp.

A bit too warm for you obviously.

 

[aguero93:20]

I was 60/40 to leave before the Cameron Reforms with Tusk. It was the result of that that made me realise that the EU was heading in a direction neither I nor the UK wanted it to go in. Forced my hand, really. The EU's discussions haven't done much to endear me to want to remain. An EU Navy now, you say...?

You mean it was being told "use the immigration controls available to you, they aren't being used so why do you need more?" That did it for you?

 

[aguero93:20]

US is still bigger than the EU by a huge margin

It isn't in economic terms. In military terms yes.

 

[Mon Autre]

My problem with the WA is that it hamstrung the UK for decades to come abd made us subservient to the machinations of the EU and their lackeys

Any trade deal will leave the parties hamstrung in some respect. The eventual deal we agree with the EU from the position of not having a pot to piss in post no-deal will probably be even worse. Can't even imagine the shit we'll end up agreeing to in order to get the Americans to save us.

Whatever you don't like about being part of a trading bloc (that we currently have a say in) is only going to get worse post Brexit.

 

[blueinsa]

It isn't in economic terms. In military terms yes.

Its bigger.

Why say it isn't?

 

[Metal Biker]

You mean it was being told "use the immigration controls available to you, they aren't being used so why do you need more?" That did it for you?

Again, what is with the obsession with immigration?

I've told you that immigration isn't a factor for me. It's like you're adamantly refusing to listen, so I can no longer take you all seriously. Cameron's reforms returned the notion that if the UK didn't like the way the EU was heading, we could simply use our veto's, but the EU was still going ahead. It showed that the EU did not value or accept the UK's input or concerns about the EU's future. That is what did it for me and made me realise we were not part of the EU, we were being dragged along.

You just want to turn everything into something nasty don't you.

 

[Metal Biker]

It isn't in economic terms. In military terms yes.

An economy of $20.5tn isn't to be sniffed at, no matter how you slice it. It's influences, economy and status are still ahead of the EU as the EU still has no official power over it's members (yet, but they want to change that don't they...)

 

[aguero93:20]

Again, what is with the obsession with immigration?

I've told you that immigration isn't a factor for me. It's like you're adamantly refusing to listen, so I can no longer take you all seriously. Cameron's reforms returned the notion that if the UK didn't like the way the EU was heading, we could simply use our veto's, but the EU was still going ahead. It showed that the EU did not value or accept the UK's input or concerns about the EU's future. That is what did it for me and made me realise we were not part of the EU, we were being dragged along.

You just want to turn everything into something nasty don't you.

Cameron's big requests were on immigration and the eurozone. He was told that if he wasn't using the existing powers available to him on immigration he had no business asking for more and that the eurozone was none of his business as the UK aren't a member. Imagine another EU country had made the same request, Spain requesting controls on British pensioners and demanding the pound be regulated differently, how would you feel?

 

[west didsblue]

Its bigger.

Why say it isn't?

MB said it was twice as big. It isn't.
In reality the GDP of the US is roughly 10% bigger which makes them broadly similar when it comes to negotiating a trade deal. The EU has a roughly 50% bigger population which makes it a bigger market.
The UK economy is 20% the size of the US and following Brexit will have a handful of trade deals covering less than 5% of the UK's overall trade. That puts us in a hugely weak position in any negotiation.

 

[aguero93:20]

Its bigger.

Why say it isn't?

$20.5trn is bigger than $22trn? I've been doing things wrong all my life, I'll have to rethink.

 

[aguero93:20]

MB said it was twice as big. It isn't.
In reality the GDP of the US is roughly 10% bigger which makes them broadly similar when it comes to negotiating a trade deal. The EU has a roughly 50% bigger population which makes it a bigger market.
The UK economy is 20% the size of the US and following Brexit will have a handful of trade deals covering less than 5% of the UK's overall trade. That puts us in a hugely weak position in any negotiation.

Source? The IMF currently have China 1st, the EU 2nd, the USA 3rd. By GDP per capita the EU still leads afaia

 

[aguero93:20]

An economy of $20.5tn isn't to be sniffed at, no matter how you slice it. It's influences, economy and status are still ahead of the EU as the EU still has no official power over it's members (yet, but they want to change that don't they...)

Yeah we won't sniff at it, but at the same time they won't dictate terms on any deal.

 

[west didsblue]

An economy of $20.5tn isn't to be sniffed at, no matter how you slice it. It's influences, economy and status are still ahead of the EU as the EU still has no official power over it's members (yet, but they want to change that don't they...)

Well spotted that size is proportional to influence.
What makes you think that standing alone with an economy a fraction of the size of the US is a good thing when it comes to negotiating a trade deal with them.

 

[Metal Biker]

Cameron's big requests were on immigration and the eurozone. He was told that if he wasn't using the existing powers available to him on immigration he had no business asking for more and that the eurozone was none of his business as the UK aren't a member. Imagine another EU country had made the same request, Spain requesting controls on British pensioners and demanding the pound be regulated differently, how would you feel?

Completely irrelevant to the point of the post I made.

His points on the Eurozone, the legitmacy of the Pound Sterling, Krone and other non-Euro currencies seemingly be shown as lesser currencies in the EU for example, highlighted the EU's obsession with the superstate claims people were making. The EU is meant to be a union of nations, so each nations currency should be given equal legitimacy and promotion by it's members, not just focusing on the Euro because it's the "EU currency", there are several EU currencies, but as you pointed out "UK isn't in the Eurozone" so we were told to butt out. Butt out? Not exactly involving is it. Exactly whose EU is it? The member nations or the EU's legislative powers?

It wasn't all about immigration and it's ignorant to suggest that is all he went to the EU for reforming or why I finally decided that without reform< I could not condone being a member, and that's before TTIP and other issues.

 

[west didsblue]

Source? The IMF currently have China 1st, the EU 2nd, the USA 3rd. By GDP per capita the EU still leads afaia

That's the PPP list as opposed to the nominal list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

 

[aguero93:20]

Completely irrelevant to the point of the post I made.

His points on the Eurozone, the legitmacy of the Pound Sterling, Krone and other non-Euro currencies seemingly be shown as lesser currencies in the EU for example, highlighted the EU's obsession with the superstate claims people were making. The EU is meant to be a union of nations, so each nations currency should be given equal legitimacy and promotion by it's members, not just focusing on the Euro because it's the "EU currency", there are several EU currencies, but as you pointed out "UK isn't in the Eurozone" so we were told to butt out. Butt out? Not exactly involving is it. Exactly whose EU is it? The member nations or the EU's legislative powers?

It wasn't all about immigration and it's ignorant to suggest that is all he went to the EU for reforming or why I finally decided that without reform< I could not condone being a member, and that's before TTIP and other issues.

They are lesser currencies mate, it's economies of scale. The euro is also the business of the eurozone and nobody else. Go criticise the US for their blatant debt running on the dollar, see how they react. The UK can promote Sterling all they want, don't expect the rest of us to do it for you.

 

[Metal Biker]

Yeah we won't sniff at it, but at the same time they won't dictate terms on any deal.

Wow, arrogant much?

Yours is exactly the attitude about Europe and the EU that I have an issue with. "It is the EU that will be dictating the terms of any deals!" If the world's largest economy and military superpower cannot dictate terms to the EU, what chance do smaller economies in continents of Africa, Asia and South America have in the eyes of the EU juggernaut?

 

[aguero93:20]

That's the PPP list as opposed to the nominal list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

I'd go PPP tbh mate, it's a better indicator as GDP doesn't take into account the fact that a large part of both blocs populations have little to no purchasing power which is important in a trade deal.

 

[aguero93:20]

Wow, arrogant much?

Yours is exactly the attitude about Europe and the EU that I have an issue with. "It is the EU that will be dictating the terms of any deals!" If the world's largest economy and military superpower cannot dictate terms to the EU, what chance do smaller economies in continents of Africa, Asia and South America have in the eyes of the EU juggernaut?

I'm sorry, did I offend you by suggesting the US aren't in a position to dictate? Is their global position that important to you?

 

[Metal Biker]

They are lesser currencies mate, it's economies of scale. The euro is also the business of the eurozone and nobody else. Go criticise the US for their blatant debt running on the dollar, see how they react. The UK can promote Sterling all they want, don't expect the rest of us to do it for you.

In your opinion.

The EU is a union of each member nation, and not every member nation uses the Euro. There are ELEVEN currencies of the EU, not one. The aims of the EU were to help build up each nations economy, not force them to combine their economies under one currency. The EU should be seen to increase the status of the Krone, the Pound Sterling, the Lev etc.

US aren't in the EU, so I don't need to criticise anything in that regard. The UK IS a member of the EU, the UK is not a member of the Euro, it has it's own currency. Why is the Euro promoted ahead of the Pound Sterling? The Euro should be A currency of the EU not THE currency of the EU. I was fully behind the spirit of the EEC and with things like the Euro, Schengen, Eurozone and other aspects that the UK vetoed (and were against) we were starting to feel like we were being left behind and the EU didn't care.

But no, it was about immigration... FFS.