The Conservative Party

mcfc1632 said:
Well - I can agree with a lot of what you say in relation to your simplistic analogy - but that is not how A50 is supposed to work.

A50 provides for the: ".....negotiation of a withdrawal agreement between the EU and the withdrawing state, defining in particular the latter's future relationship with the Union

It has been wholly down to the incompetence of Robbins and May that the UK has allowed the EU to determine the order and process of how matters will be managed. With competent senior figures and professional negotiators the last 3 years would have been managed in an entirely different manner.
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A50 I believe is a clause inserted that was never actually meant to be used. Its impracticality shows that is the case.

The UK got bogged down in minutiae rather than contemplating the larger picture.
 
Rascal said:
A50 I believe is a clause inserted that was never actually meant to be used. Its impracticality shows that is the case.

The UK got bogged down in minutiae rather than contemplating the larger picture.
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Again I can agree with you but I would say more that it was never envisaged or expected to be used - the EU was not thinking that a member would ever wish to withdraw

That said - as the EU was bringing forward its constitution - it was realised that there was a need for the provision of a process of withdrawal - in the unlikely event that such might be required.

Accordingly, the rules of this particular club state that:

"A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."

So, yes there should be the negotiation of the future arrangements during the period of exiting.

That said, the incompetence of Robbins and May has led to 3 wasted years and a situation that is worse than the point we were at on 24/06/16
 
FantasyIreland said:
It may well skew it,but it doesn't prevent it.

Some people get off their arse and make things happen despite the obstacles life has presented them - not everyone wants an excuse.
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“England is the most class-ridden country under the sun. It is a land of snobbery and privilege, ruled largely by the old and silly.”
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― George Orwell

There have been six Labour Prime Ministers.

Johnson is Eton's 20th.
 
FantasyIreland said:
It may well skew it,but it doesn't prevent it.

Some people get off their arse and make things happen despite the obstacles life has presented them - not everyone wants an excuse.
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You can get off your arse and work as hard as you fucking can, it still doesn't mean you will get the same opportunities in life that others do.

Would they have accepted me, a council house kid from Salford to Eton and Oxbridge, not a fucking prayer as I am not one of them, I am an uncouth **** from a poor background and do not fit in. You kid yourself all you want about working hard and getting off your arse etc, but I don't have a rich daddy with connections who can get me privileged access to the upper strata of society.

The elite love people like you, you have bought there dream and they will use the fruits of your labour to enrich themselves and they couldn't give two fucks about you. That entrenches their hold on society, its a closed shop, the old school tie network who look after their own at the expense of others. That is really wasteful too, and its selfish because so much talent goes to waste in this country because they are not part of that network. That network that produces fucking idiots like Johnson the Oxbridge classicist who does not even know his classics properly. I read Homer when I was a kid, I bet Johnson thinks he is in the Simpsons.
 
Rascal said:
You can get off your arse and work as hard as you fucking can, it still doesn't mean you will get the same opportunities in life that others do.

Would they have accepted me, a council house kid from Salford to Eton and Oxbridge, not a fucking prayer as I am not one of them, I am an uncouth **** from a poor background and do not fit in. You kid yourself all you want about working hard and getting off your arse etc, but I don't have a rich daddy with connections who can get me privileged access to the upper strata of society.

The elite love people like you, you have bought there dream and they will use the fruits of your labour to enrich themselves and they couldn't give two fucks about you. That entrenches their hold on society, its a closed shop, the old school tie network who look after their own at the expense of others. That is really wasteful too, and its selfish because so much talent goes to waste in this country because they are not part of that network. That network that produces fucking idiots like Johnson the Oxbridge classicist who does not even know his classics properly. I read Homer when I was a kid, I bet Johnson thinks he is in the Simpsons.
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Im a kid from Salford who had fuck all too.... the odds werent in my favour,but ive done great because I chose to.
You are the master of your own destiny,you can choose to whinge about being hard done to or you can get out there and make something of yourself.
 
To be fair to the fella, he's saying all the right things.

It'll be very interesting to watch him v Corbyn. I find Corbyn very easy to watch and I think he speaks well on TV. They both appear to be media savvy. I'd like to see them head to head debating at the next GE.
 
malg said:
To be fair to the fella, he's saying all the right things.

It'll be very interesting to watch him v Corbyn. I find Corbyn very easy to watch and I think he speaks well on TV. They both appear to be media savvy. I'd like to see them head to head debating at the next GE.
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Swampy is no match for Poshbo.
 
You know what? I done with arguing with Tories in this thread and this will be the last time I post in here for a while.

You might argue that Jeremy Corbyn is the worst thing that could ever happen to this country. I don't even rate the guy but I'll say this. I'm only 36 but without doubt this is the lowest ebb this country has been in in my lifetime and it's happened entirely under Tory rule. I dunno how anyone could argue any different. Fuck them.

I've never seen the country so fragmented and divided in my lifetime.

Through a global lense we look like scrappy doo proclaiming "just let me at him, I can do this". It's laughable.

We're a laughing stock right now. The poor are getting poorer and standards are dropping. I'm so happy for those of you that are doffing your caps to Boris right now. I only wish I could be as completely fucking deluded as you because at least I'd feel happy. This country is in complete disarray right now. Racist and homophobic attacks are on the rise and it's only going to get worse. Enjoy the ride.
 
Mon Autre said:
You know what? I done with arguing with Tories in this thread and this will be the last time I post in here for a while.

You might argue that Jeremy Corbyn is the worst thing that could ever happen to this country. I don't even rate the guy but I'll say this. I'm only 36 but without doubt this is the lowest ebb this country has been in in my lifetime and it's happened entirely under Tory rule. I dunno how anyone could argue any different. Fuck them.

I've never seen the country so fragmented and divided in my lifetime.

Through a global lense we look like scrappy doo proclaiming "just let me at him, I can do this". It's laughable.

We're a laughing stock right now. The poor are getting poorer and standards are dropping. I'm so happy for those of you that are doffing your caps to Boris right now. I only wish I could be as completely fucking deluded as you because at least I'd feel happy. This country is in complete disarray right now. Racist and homophobic attacks are on the rise and it's only going to get worse. Enjoy the ride.
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Tonight I will have a drink or two, tomorrow chill with the Mrs, work next week bit boring, maybe a round of golf weather permitting. Turn on the tv all bad news nhs, police etc... maybe put on a film, meet up with the lads. Pretty much the same as the last 35 years. And every year someone will have said state of this country.

In a world of several billion people we have and still are doing better than most, chill out before you know it you will be getting up several times to have a piss and wondering if that memory loss is normal or are you on the road to puddled town.

At least city are good.
 
Mon Autre said:
This country is in complete disarray right now. Racist and homophobic attacks are on the rise and it's only going to get worse. Enjoy the ride.
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Crime and disorder is on the rise period,i don't see why you needed to be selective.

Hopefully the reported recruitment of 20k officers,which will only replace those we have lost.....will come to fruition,and it isn't just more lip service from another bullshitting politician.
 
FantasyIreland said:
Im a kid from Salford who had fuck all too.... the odds werent in my favour,but ive done great because I chose to.
You are the master of your own destiny,you can choose to whinge about being hard done to or you can get out there and make something of yourself.
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Well done you, for every one of you there thousands who don't. That is how capitalism works and if you don't understand that then there is nothing more I can add.
 
FantasyIreland said:
Crime and disorder is on the rise period,i don't see why you needed to be selective.

Hopefully the reported recruitment of 20k officers,which will only replace those we have lost.....will come to fruition,and it isn't just more lip service from another bullshitting politician.
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The Tories claimed crime is not on the rise that is why they cut the police in the first place. Only now do they realise there lies have been found out.

Crime and disorder may be on the rise, but like employment is on the rise you miss one important factor....Population is rising too i.e there are more people alive now than in any time in history.
 
Rascal said:
Well done you, for every one of you there thousands who don't. That is how capitalism works and if you don't understand that then there is nothing more I can add.
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I don't need a well done,because wanting to be successful and contributing positively to society is what i,and any other,normal,decent,person should consider as expected behaviour.
 
Rascal said:
The Tories claimed crime is not on the rise that is why they cut the police in the first place. Only now do they realise there lies have been found out.

Crime and disorder may be on the rise, but like employment is on the rise you miss one important factor....Population is rising too i.e there are more people alive now than in any time in history.
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You don't need to tell me what i have experienced from every angle.I wont lay the blame at any particular party though as consecutive governments have added fuel to a destructive fire for as long as i can remember.
 
FantasyIreland said:
I don't need a well done,because wanting to be successful and contributing positively to society is what i,and any other,normal,decent,person should consider as expected behaviour.
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Wanting and achieving are not the same thing, there are other factors to take into account.

There are also levels of success and achievement that are not just about wealth although that is rarely considered due to capitalist conditioning.
 
Rascal said:
Wanting and achieving are not the same thing, there are other factors to take into account.

There are also levels of success and achievement that are not just about wealth although that is rarely considered due to capitalist conditioning.
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As long as a person wants to be a success and tries everything within their power to achieve such,then they are alright by me.

Those who choose to sit on their arse,thinking up excuses for their environment while believing the world owes them a living,can go fuck themselves.
 
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