The Conservative Party

FantasyIreland said:
As long as a person wants to be a success and tries everything within their power to achieve such,then they are alright by me.

Those who choose to sit on their arse,thinking up excuses for their environment while believing the world owes them a living,can go fuck themselves.
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I wondered when that trope would appear.

It is the classical aside of a look at me smug fuck. It is of course nothing to do with the debate, it is just the propaganda fed to you to ensure you conform to the elitist norms of the self achiever. Your post is classic Daily Mail.

What if a person tries everything in there power to be a success but still fail because the odds are stacked against them? Are they all making excuses and can they all go and fuck themselves, because you happen to have done well? That is the epitome of capitalism, the dog eat dog sacrilege of the self consumed individual. It creates men without compassion and makes them inherently selfish in outlook and opinion. It makes you a minion of the elite, you do there work for them, whilst they laugh at their creation.
 
FantasyIreland said:
Im a kid from Salford who had fuck all too.... the odds werent in my favour,but ive done great because I chose to.
You are the master of your own destiny,you can choose to whinge about being hard done to or you can get out there and make something of yourself.
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I am very much in agreement with your views - but I also understand where Rascal is coming from

My brother and myself are also the products of Salford council houses. I will be viewed as doing very well - but that has indeed required me to work like stink when younger and take advantage of every opportunity that has either presented itself or I have unearthed. My brother has made zero effort in his life and would acknowledge his most productive 'skill' is knowing how to maximise the benefits system - in his 60s now, he has done relatively few working days in his life and he was positively delighted when he suffered a health condition that supported his ability to claim a wider range of benefits but did not prevent his enjoyment of pubs and bookies

Where I agree with Rascal is that if my brother had been born into privilege even such a workshy waster as him would have had opportunities come his way.

Where the majority of my thoughts are though is similar to your POV and I agree that effort and application can lead to anyone getting on and doing well for themselves nowadays. I come across too many people that take the convenient option of blaming 'the situation' for their lack of achievement when actually there has not been a lot of effort and applcation
 
mcfc1632 said:
I am very much in agreement with your views - but I also understand where Rascal is coming from

My brother and myself are also the products of Salford council houses. I will be viewed as doing very well - but that has indeed required me to work like stink when younger and take advantage of every opportunity that has either presented itself or I have unearthed. My brother has made zero effort in his life and would acknowledge his most productive 'skill' is knowing how to maximise the benefits system - in his 60s now, he has done relatively few working days in his life and he was positively delighted when he suffered a health condition that supported his ability to claim a wider range of benefits but did not prevent his enjoyment of pubs and bookies

Where I agree with Rascal is that if my brother had been born into privilege even such a workshy waster as him would have had opportunities come his way.

Where the majority of my thoughts are though is similar to your POV and I agree that effort and application can lead to anyone getting on and doing well for themselves nowadays. I come across too many people that take the convenient option of blaming 'the situation' for their lack of achievement when actually there has not been a lot of effort and applcation
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Does your brother, when he takes time out from the bookies and boozer, complain about the 'Savage cuts' to his hard earned benefits?
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Does your brother, when he takes time out from the bookies and boozer, complain about the 'Savage cuts' to his hard earned benefits?
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He has expressed increasing levels of outrage at the 'effort' he is being required to put in to attending meetings and explaining to people why he is unable to work and that he must keep his full range of benefits

Let me be clear - there are so many people that have the need for our benefits system to be utterly fair and indeed generous and I, having a fair understanding of the 'evolving' methods of the DWP, am appalled at some of the treatment experienced by genuine claimants

My brother is one of those examples that allow people to say that the system is abused
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Does your brother, when he takes time out from the bookies and boozer, complain about the 'Savage cuts' to his hard earned benefits?
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Anybody with an ounce of compassion would complain regardless of personal circumstances. If his brother goes to the bookies and boozer there maybe a myriad of reasons for it, to assume everyone who claims welfare is in the boozer and bookies is just fucking stupid and typical of the demonization of traditional working class pursuits. It really does me sick when I hear fellow Britons treat those who are less well off with such contempt, it is redolent of the typical Tory mindset, that same mindset that praises foodbanks as being a good thing. All they doing is creating an underclass of people on to whom they can shift blame for their idiotic policies of austerity and tax cuts. Its a huge fuck off to anyone who has suffered the ignominy of not being able to compete in their classical capitalist system and to think that way is fucking shameful. All people like you do is help in the self justification of the wealthy elite being able to increase their wealth and they could not give two fucks about you.
 
Rascal said:
Anybody with an ounce of compassion would complain regardless of personal circumstances. If his brother goes to the bookies and boozer there maybe a myriad of reasons for it, to assume everyone who claims welfare is in the boozer and bookies is just fucking stupid and typical of the demonization of traditional working class pursuits. It really does me sick when I hear fellow Britons treat those who are less well off with such contempt, it is redolent of the typical Tory mindset, that same mindset that praises foodbanks as being a good thing. All they doing is creating an underclass of people on to whom they can shift blame for their idiotic policies of austerity and tax cuts. Its a huge fuck off to anyone who has suffered the ignominy of not being able to compete in their classical capitalist system and to think that way is fucking shameful. All people like you do is help in the self justification of the wealthy elite being able to increase their wealth and they could not give two fucks about you.
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Rascal said:
Anybody with an ounce of compassion would complain regardless of personal circumstances. If his brother goes to the bookies and boozer there maybe a myriad of reasons for it, to assume everyone who claims welfare is in the boozer and bookies is just fucking stupid and typical of the demonization of traditional working class pursuits. It really does me sick when I hear fellow Britons treat those who are less well off with such contempt, it is redolent of the typical Tory mindset, that same mindset that praises foodbanks as being a good thing. All they doing is creating an underclass of people on to whom they can shift blame for their idiotic policies of austerity and tax cuts. Its a huge fuck off to anyone who has suffered the ignominy of not being able to compete in their classical capitalist system and to think that way is fucking shameful. All people like you do is help in the self justification of the wealthy elite being able to increase their wealth and they could not give two fucks about you.
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First of all, don't accuse me of having 'No compassion,'
and please spare us any more of the ludicrous anti capitalist rants, from past experience, you've admitted to being a communist, fair enough, we need a thread on it. I, along with mcfc, have family members exactly the same, scrounging, workshy leeches, forever attacking the system, yet leading comfortable lives off the back of it. My Mrs is disabled and we have had to go throuh some serious and debilitating procedures suffering humiliating and demeaning treatment, to receive what she needs. I am fully aware of the mistakes and mismanagement by government regarding this, and agree with much of the criticism.
However, there is abuse of it, and having cash to blow at pubs and bookies is not what the welfare state was created for, trying to justify someone spending taxpayer money in such a fashion goes against all notion of fairness.
 
FantasyIreland said:
As long as a person wants to be a success and tries everything within their power to achieve such,then they are alright by me.

Those who choose to sit on their arse,thinking up excuses for their environment while believing the world owes them a living,can go fuck themselves.
Click to expand...

Does this include hereditary peers and the born into privilege idle rich ?

I mean technically it's the same thing
 
Ancient Citizen said:
However, there is abuse of it, and having cash to blow at pubs and bookies is not what the welfare state was created for, trying to justify someone spending taxpayer money in such a fashion goes against all notion of fairness.
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Deciding how people spend there money for them is authoritarian, I would have thought that is against every fibre of Tory principle.

Out of interest what do you think those who are on welfare should spend their welfare on and why?
 
FantasyIreland said:
As long as a person wants to be a success and tries everything within their power to achieve such,then they are alright by me.

Those who choose to sit on their arse,thinking up excuses for their environment while believing the world owes them a living,can go fuck themselves.
Click to expand...
Straight from the Tory hand book of how to divide and rule.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
First of all, don't accuse me of having 'No compassion,'
and please spare us any more of the ludicrous anti capitalist rants, from past experience, you've admitted to being a communist, fair enough, we need a thread on it. I, along with mcfc, have family members exactly the same, scrounging, workshy leeches, forever attacking the system, yet leading comfortable lives off the back of it. My Mrs is disabled and we have had to go throuh some serious and debilitating procedures suffering humiliating and demeaning treatment, to receive what she needs. I am fully aware of the mistakes and mismanagement by government regarding this, and agree with much of the criticism.
However, there is abuse of it, and having cash to blow at pubs and bookies is not what the welfare state was created for, trying to justify someone spending taxpayer money in such a fashion goes against all notion of fairness.
Click to expand...
I am sorry to hear about the problems you and your good lady have gone through, it really disgusts me that people have to be put through those procedures in order to try to live a semblance of a normal life.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
First of all, don't accuse me of having 'No compassion,'
and please spare us any more of the ludicrous anti capitalist rants, from past experience, you've admitted to being a communist, fair enough, we need a thread on it. I, along with mcfc, have family members exactly the same, scrounging, workshy leeches, forever attacking the system, yet leading comfortable lives off the back of it. My Mrs is disabled and we have had to go throuh some serious and debilitating procedures suffering humiliating and demeaning treatment, to receive what she needs. I am fully aware of the mistakes and mismanagement by government regarding this, and agree with much of the criticism.
However, there is abuse of it, and having cash to blow at pubs and bookies is not what the welfare state was created for, trying to justify someone spending taxpayer money in such a fashion goes against all notion of fairness.
Click to expand...


The greatest trick of the Tories was to convince the middle class that the disabled , unemployed, elderly and poor were their enemy. The vast majority of people on 'welfare' don't want to be there (and again the vast majority have paid into a system to provide them with protection should the worst happen )...
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
The greatest trick of the Tories was to convince the middle class that the disabled , unemployed, elderly and poor were their enemy. The vast majority of people on 'welfare' don't want to be there (and again the vast majority have paid into a system to provide them with protection should the worst happen )...
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No one in their right mind should have issue with people who find themselves in times of need/difficulty through no fault of their own - this is why welfare and benefits exist,not as an option.....but as a safety net when all other avenues have been exhausted,and why,when able,you contribute to the pot and their continued existence.
 
I give you James Cleverley............henceforth to be known as " Not So". The new front runner in the Chris Grayling trophy competition..............

 
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