Donald Trump

[BlueNomad]

Do you think that it’s right and proper that if you know someone famous (who has the ear of the President), you have a better chance of being pardoned?

Welcome to the “transactional” Presidency!

 

[Vic]

Seems legit......

Drain the swamp.

 

[Vic]

Again, I let the facts dictate what I believe.

Perhaps her words are instructive here:

"I want this part to be clear: I acknowledge that I have done wrong. I made the biggest mistake of my life to make ends meet and got involved with people selling drugs.

This was a road I never dreamed of venturing down. I became what is called a telephone mule, passing messages between the distributors and sellers. I participated in a drug conspiracy, and I was wrong"

Hardly, what I'd call "effectively running the organization" but if that's your view fair enough. On a side note her home was foreclosed on in 1991 because she could not pay her mortgage. Hardly the kind of stuff you'd expect from someone running a drug trafficking show.

My sense is she was the unsuspecting in-between who also laundered the money for the outfit.

Again, here is how she describes her conviction:

"I am only one of thousands of first-time, nonviolent offenders given mandatory and lengthy prison terms"

I did not minimize the facts, I simply expressed them as best they've been described previously. By her and the guidelines under which she was sentenced

Your "facts" are "as described by the convicted criminal" and they are minimised. What you believe is heavily influenced by your desire to put a gloss on Trump's actions.

Other than "she didn't meet all the criteria" I can't find why she was not given clemency under Obama when thousands were (and you didn't stop to ask). Maybe she should have been and I am not defending the sentencing policy of the USA.

But that is the issue. Obama set up a system to look at cases using set criteria. Trump intervened personally on the sole criterion that a political ally asked him to, but is leaving thousands more to rot in prison (you've highlighted Johnson's own words on that).

She was a first-time offender but had committed thousands of offences before being caught. And as for her offences being non-violent, here's Trump's view: “If you shoot one person, they give you life, they give you the death penalty. These [drug dealers] can kill 2,000, 3,000 people, and nothing happens to them.”

Johnson was convicted for being the leader in an operation distributing two to three tons of cocaine.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/6/6/17434760/trump-alice-johnson-pardon-kim-kardashian

 

[bluethrunthru]

The POTUS is a vile man

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49141521

 

[Bigga]

No, it's not a piss take. Compared to the Central Park 5? Why would I compare a street fight to a heinous crime?

The Injustice in the CP 5 case was a lack of evidence. The Injustice here is a zealot prosecution in spite of clear evidence to the contrary.

The aggressor has been freed while the one who defended himself is in jail. Yes, that's a travesty.

It's funny how you draw direct correlation from a RANDOM example! I wasn't comparing the two as you did. I was highlighting the injustice in the States when the Orange One is declaring 'injustice' abroad!

I think the irony is delicious.

Just because you think that's how others view black people doesn't mean you are right. It's just you.

Here is how a common sense person will view it.


Ilhan Omar sucks."Nor black people. But Ilhan Omar. Sure she's black. But just like white people and Asian people and Hispanic people,some black people suck too. I know this might be news to you.


Omar Sucks! I'm going to call her out. "Hey fuckwit how about you shut the F up with the whinning. You know what, do us all a favor, how about you fuck off back to where you came from, fix the shit hole, and then come back and teach us how to fix things here, ok?"

That by the way was the full context of his rant. Read in it's full context, it's a "fuck you" and "you don't know shit" attack.

So who's the "common sense person" in this regard? That sounds like a White right winged American's POV to Omar.

Your question has to be; is she American? If not, why not?

If not, how has she been DEMOCRATICALLY voted in to represent her district??

If she is, however, she's covered by the grand 'freedom of speech' declaration and she's allowed to speak her mind which, apparently, is ...'as American as apple pie'.

How do you define panderer. That might be the distinction here.

verb
If you pander to someone or to their wishes, you do everything that they want, often to get some advantage for yourself.

Wow! Well wasn't that easy...?!

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Fun facts - Ilhan Omar became a US citizen in 2000 after her parents were granted asylum and never undertook paid work prior to this.

Melania Trump finally obtained US citizenship in 2006. She originally petitioned for citizenship in 2000 under the EB-1 program for people with extraordinary abilities, although the only ability she appeared to have at the time was for taking her clothes off. According to the Associated Press, she undertook at least 10 paid modelling jobs in the USA whilst still on a visitors visa. Anyone else (dare I say of a different ethnic background) would have been deported. She has since had an anchor baby, and brought her elderly parents to the USA under chain migration, of which her husband said "chain migration people are not the people we want coming to this country".

 

[SWP's back]

Your "facts" are "as described by the convicted criminal" and they are minimised. What you believe is heavily influenced by your desire to put a gloss on Trump's actions.

Other than "she didn't meet all the criteria" I can't find why she was not given clemency under Obama when thousands were (and you didn't stop to ask). Maybe she should have been and I am not defending the sentencing policy of the USA.

But that is the issue. Obama set up a system to look at cases using set criteria. Trump intervened personally on the sole criterion that a political ally asked him to, but is leaving thousands more to rot in prison (you've highlighted Johnson's own words on that).

She was a first-time offender but had committed thousands of offences before being caught. And as for her offences being non-violent, here's Trump's view: “If you shoot one person, they give you life, they give you the death penalty. These [drug dealers] can kill 2,000, 3,000 people, and nothing happens to them.”

Johnson was convicted for being the leader in an operation distributing two to three tons of cocaine.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/6/6/17434760/trump-alice-johnson-pardon-kim-kardashian

I think they call that ‘game, set and match’.

 

[SWP's back]

Fun facts - Ilhan Omar became a US citizen in 2000 after her parents were granted asylum and never undertook paid work prior to this.

Melania Trump finally obtained US citizenship in 2006. She originally petitioned for citizenship in 2000 under the EB-1 program for people with extraordinary abilities, although the only ability she appeared to have at the time was for taking her clothes off. According to the Associated Press, she undertook at least 10 paid modelling jobs in the USA whilst still on a visitors visa. Anyone else (dare I say of a different ethnic background) would have been deported. She has since had an anchor baby, and brought her elderly parents to the USA under chain migration, of which her husband said "chain migration people are not the people we want coming to this country".

Awkward.

 

[arbabarshad]

Fun facts - Ilhan Omar became a US citizen in 2000 after her parents were granted asylum and never undertook paid work prior to this.

Melania Trump finally obtained US citizenship in 2006. She originally petitioned for citizenship in 2000 under the EB-1 program for people with extraordinary abilities, although the only ability she appeared to have at the time was for taking her clothes off. According to the Associated Press, she undertook at least 10 paid modelling jobs in the USA whilst still on a visitors visa. Anyone else (dare I say of a different ethnic background) would have been deported. She has since had an anchor baby, and brought her elderly parents to the USA under chain migration, of which her husband said "chain migration people are not the people we want coming to this country".

Has this been quoted to the twitter feed of trump ?

 

[Dax777]

Do you really think someone can be classed a first time offender if they have been breaking the law for years and simply hadn’t been previously caught?

Do you think that it’s right and proper that if you know someone famous (who has the ear of the President), you have a better chance of being pardoned?

Saw this earlier, thought I responded.
A. Yes. A majority of first time offended have been breaking the law for years.

B. No. I don't think so. But that's clearly stated in my original post on the issue of Johnson.

Too often here folks are responding to a new issue entirely.

Trump is bad. Not at issue. Cronism is bad. Not at issue.
Is the reason why Trump is helping this black person and that black person an attempt to pander to black people? In this round of discussion, that's what's at issue.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Has this been quoted to the twitter feed of trump ?

I'm sure it probably has at some point ;-)

 

[SWP's back]

Is the reason why Trump is helping this black person and that black person an attempt to pander to black people?

I think so yes. I don’t think he had any sudden urge to help this particular woman.

 

[Dax777]

Your "facts" are "as described by the convicted criminal" and they are minimised. What you believe is heavily influenced by your desire to put a gloss on Trump's actions.

Other than "she didn't meet all the criteria" I can't find why she was not given clemency under Obama when thousands were (and you didn't stop to ask). Maybe she should have been and I am not defending the sentencing policy of the USA.

But that is the issue. Obama set up a system to look at cases using set criteria. Trump intervened personally on the sole criterion that a political ally asked him to, but is leaving thousands more to rot in prison (you've highlighted Johnson's own words on that).

She was a first-time offender but had committed thousands of offences before being caught. And as for her offences being non-violent, here's Trump's view: “If you shoot one person, they give you life, they give you the death penalty. These [drug dealers] can kill 2,000, 3,000 people, and nothing happens to them.”

Johnson was convicted for being the leader in an operation distributing two to three tons of cocaine.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/6/6/17434760/trump-alice-johnson-pardon-kim-kardashian

Again, I have no interest in putting anything on Trump's actions. Just using what information is available.

I think so yes. I don’t think he had any sudden urge to help this particular woman.

Nor do I. He is moved simply by cronism. "Help my friends out." Same reasoning applies to ASAP Rocky.

Which was my original point. That his actions aren't explained by this claim:

"He isn't pandering, he is using a siituation to try and prove he isn't racist, and failing."

Hence why I brought up prior examples that show a pattern. Cronism, powerful guy who can show off his power.. These are the factors driving him. Not some surreptitious attempt to try to prove to the public he isn't a racist.

 

[SWP's back]

Hence why I brought up prior examples that show a pattern. Cronism, powerful guy who can show off his power.. These are the factors driving him. Not some surreptitious attempt to try to prove to the public he isn't a racist.

Fair enough.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Hence why I brought up prior examples that show a pattern. Cronism, powerful guy who can show off his power.. These are the factors driving him. Not some surreptitious attempt to try to prove to the public he isn't a racist.

ARRRRRGHHHHHH. Fine, then -- make sure your post reaches all of his 1000s of supporters on Twitter who are saying, "See? Look at how he's helping this guy. Would he do that if he were a racist?"

Trump knows exactly what the knock-on effect of this is. THAT. IS. THE. POINT. It's not proof, it is fodder for his supporters' "proof".

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

ARRRRRGHHHHHH. Fine, then -- make sure your post reaches all of his 1000s of supporters on Twitter who are saying, "See? Look at how he's helping this guy. Would he do that if he were a racist?"

Trump knows exactly what the knock-on effect of this is. THAT. IS. THE. POINT. It's not proof, it is fodder for his supporters' "proof".

He providing his dumb-ass supporters justification for their opinion and arguments.

 

[Dax777]

[

ARRRRRGHHHHHH. Fine, then -- make sure your post reaches all of his 1000s of supporters on Twitter who are saying, "See? Look at how he's helping this guy. Would he do that if he were a racist?"

Trump knows exactly what the knock-on effect of this is. THAT. IS. THE. POINT. It's not proof, it is fodder for his supporters' "proof".

And how does that play with his "unshakable racist base"?

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

[

And how does that play with his "unshakable racist base"?

They're fine. It's a cult, FFS. ALL of his actions can and will be justified by his supporters. You keep trying to apply "policy" logic to a cult. It is getting really, really irritating try to explain this over and over. There is nothing -- absolutely NOTHING -- that can shake the core of his support base. And as I said -- SOME of his supporters ARE racists. And a bunch are farmers, who have gotten reamed by tariffs. And some are conservatives who used to look upon Federal aid to farmers as anathema, aid being his make-up for the tariff impact on farmers. Deficit spending, dovish Fed -- it doesn't matter. His base has watched him abandon the old line conservative principles. Are they walking away in droves? No, and they won't. Because every day he's in office, they believe the libs are "owned", and they're thrilled. Nothing else matters.

Which, again, is why you are happy and why you defend him even though you don't like him. Because you enjoy libs being owned more than you hate immorality and amorality on stage in the most important office in the land. It's a trade-off you're fine with.

 

[SWP's back]

And how does that play with his "unshakable racist base"?

The same way his chauvinism, adultery and pussy grabbing plays with his fanatical Christian ‘family values’ base.

 

[Dax777]

They're fine. It's a cult, FFS. ALL of his actions can and will be justified by his supporters. You keep trying to apply "policy" logic to a cult. It is getting really, really irritating try to explain this over and over. There is nothing -- absolutely NOTHING -- that can shake the core of his support base. And as I said -- SOME of his supporters ARE racists. And a bunch are farmers, who have gotten reamed by tariffs. And some are conservatives who used to look upon Federal aid to farmers as anathema, aid being his make-up for the tariff impact on farmers. Deficit spending, dovish Fed -- it doesn't matter. His base has watched him abandon the old line conservative principles. Are they walking away in droves? No, and they won't. Because every day he's in office, they believe the libs are "owned", and they're thrilled. Nothing else matters.

Which, again, is why you are happy and why you defend him even though you don't like him. Because you enjoy libs being owned more than you hate immorality and amorality on stage in the most important office in the land. It's a trade-off you're fine with.

Exactly!

That said, I personally don't care about libs being owned. I care more that unemployment in the black community is down. I care more about cuts to dumb programs that serve no one and harm many more. Including those who those programs claim to help.

Whether someone feels "owned" is really tfucking irrelevant. I can give 2 fucks either way.