Another new Brexit thread

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mcfc1632 said:
Appreciate all that

Why is that more valid than a significant majority of England voted to leave - why should England and the English voters not occasionally get some equal rights?

Its been 3 years of Scotland and Ireland - and I do mean Ireland rather than N. I.
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I dont really know what you are asking tbh. It seems that you are suggesting that English voters should have a greater say in what happens to NI than us who live here...
 
Ban-jani said:
I work in recruitment, maybe I can help?
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I like the job where i'm at. Nothing I can do about the hours situation. It's dependant on many factors.

I just have to take what becomes available. Just the way of things.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Appreciate all that

Why is that more valid than a significant majority of England voted to leave - why should England and the English voters not occasionally get some equal rights?

Its been 3 years of Scotland and Ireland - and I do mean Ireland rather than N. I.
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With the break up of the union that's exactly what you could do. If anything, it demonstrates to me that your union is not working for all.
I agree that if England voted leave then they should do so.
It's not Engxit though, it's Brexit. NI is unique within the UK.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
May organises a WA with the EU. The EU accepts the WA is the only way to leave the EU. The WA is an agreed upon and negotiated method to leave with the EU. A way to leave the EU is delivered.

The opposition and the ERG rejects it. I can understand the ERG, but why the opposition Labour MP's, SNP etc.
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The SNP won’t ever, Labour did mainly because of the politics of trying to beat the Tories.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Well when you put your faith in your elected representatives to carry out the wishes of the electorate they claim to represent and not their own interests, only to see them do the opposite, democracy, regardless of what form it takes, falls through.
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I don't disagree mate.
To be fair to your bunch of self serving representatives, they are not that much different to anyone else's.
I think the whole process that got you into this mess though was flawed from the beginning.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
I don't disagree mate.
To be fair to your bunch of self serving representatives, the are not that much different to anyone else's.
I think the whole process that got you into this mess though was flawed from the beginning.
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Not helped by Cameron deciding to do one after he put the question to the people first without acknowledging he had no follow up plan if the result didn't go the way he wanted it to and just relying on the rest of the party to figure it out.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
With the break up of the union that's exactly what you could do. If anything, it demonstrates to me that your union is not working for all.
I agree that if England voted leave then they should do so.
It's not Engxit though, it's Brexit. NI is unique within the UK.
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There's quite a number in England who don't feel like the union is working, that much is true. Talks of Welsh Independence, Scottish Independence, a Northern Ireland, Welsh and Scottish Parliament/Assembly but none for England, the apparent rise in anglophobia in these regions, the Scottish Referendum being as close as it was...

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I've not felt "British" for many many years, as to a number it's become a dirty word with a abhorrent history. And with the concept of the EU, the novelty of the "United Kingdom" doesn't make any sense; a union within a union. I'm neither for nor against Irish reunification, so long as it's a decision made by the appropriate and most affected parties. At the same time though, the English have voted to leave, and if the Scottish can whine on about them not being listened to when they voted to remain, stands to reason the same should apply to the English.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
There's quite a number in England who don't feel like the union is working, that much is true. Talks of Welsh Independence, Scottish Independence, a Northern Ireland, Welsh and Scottish Parliament/Assembly but none for England, the apparent rise in anglophobia in these regions, the Scottish Referendum being as close as it was...

tumblr_prsq91AaJi1t0gmsbo2_500.gif


I've not felt "British" for many many years, as to a number it's become a dirty word with a abhorrent history. And with the concept of the EU, the novelty of the "United Kingdom" doesn't make any sense; a union within a union. I'm neither for nor against Irish reunification, so long as it's a decision made by the appropriate and most affected parties. At the same time though, the English have voted to leave, and if the Scottish can whine on about them not being listened to when they voted to remain, stands to reason the same should apply to the English.
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Don't disagree with any of that either MB, but there is a difference between NI/Brexit as part of the UK and also part of the GFA which like it or not involves our constitution as well as your constitution as it exists, and the reunification of Ireland. They are two entirely different matters.
Speculating on one leading to the other is not helping un-muddy the waters IMO.

I'm not terribly nationalistic although, I'm as proud as anyone of where I come from.
I've never seen a problem with English people being proud of the St.George flag and identity etc., but just bare in mind that as you retreat and become more singularly defined you also become less influential with your neighbours. There is definitely strength in numbers.
I accept a lot of the Pro-Brexit criticisms on here but can't help feel that the future of the planet will depend on a more holistic view in general involving a widening of political unions.
When you see that you can't get your own parliament to agree on anything, you have to admit that expanding that into the wider EU population and parliament and the same problem becomes multiplied. But it has a mechanism that is not without it's success.
There are huge advantages to being part of it also. It certainly benefits Ireland.
 
The way it feels is that to be British in NI...or British in Scotland...or British in Wales involves all four nations....but being British in England is to be English

That make sense?
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
The way it feels is that to be British in NI...or British in Scotland...or British in Wales involves all four nations....but being British in England is to be English

That make sense?
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I've asked the question over there several times, quite sincerely, What is British? and I've never got a satisfactory answer.
Nobody English that I know could really explain.
 
@Mëtal Bikër

Just to go further on your point, what gets me is that Labour’s Brexit policy was to remain in the Customs Union, which is essentially what the backstop is.

I get the feeling them wanting to attach a 2nd referendum to it was to pave the way for leaver rebellion against the Tories, should they agree to it, and a collapse of Government to bring forth a General Election.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Which in a nutshell shows why your form of parliamentary government was either never capable or totally ill-prepared to have this issue sorted by a referendum.
This wasn't thought through.
When we have a referendum to alter our constitution, by and large we see the text we are voting for or against.
We don't rely on parliament to decide how to do it afterwards.
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I read somewhere that if there were to be a border poll, there would have to be two referendums in the republic. One on the principle of unification and then a later one to agree the detail. Is that correct?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
May organises a WA with the EU. The EU accepts the WA is the only way to leave the EU. The WA is an agreed upon and negotiated method to leave with the EU. A way to leave the EU is delivered.

The opposition and the ERG rejects it. I can understand the ERG, but why the opposition Labour MP's, SNP etc.
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Maybe because there are many different forms of brexit and it is impossible to come up with one that is A) good and B) satisfactory to the various political groups/parties/parties within parties.
 
cibaman said:
I read somewhere that if there were to be a border poll, there would have to be two referendums in the republic. One on the principle of unification and then a later one to agree the detail. Is that correct?
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It's possible. It would depend on the terms of reunification. If the 6 counties were to come in on the same terms as the existing 26 then there's already provisions in the constitution for that. If they were to have a devolved government in Belfast then that might require an all island referendum. The 6 counties would also need to ratify our constitution by referendum.
 
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