Another new Brexit thread

[smudgedj]

In retrospect, the consequences of mixed results in the home nations should have been considered prior to the vote. It's patently unfair that a Leave voting England can drag a Remain voting Scotland and NI out of the EU against their will. Maybe there should have been follow up votes in England and Wales only, asking if we wanted to leave the UK to achieve Brexit.

Leave would never have won if it wasn’t for the Scottish leave vote.

 

[west didsblue]

Leave would never have won if it wasn’t for the Scottish leave vote.

So what.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Which makes my point.......

The UK voted to leave, not England, Wales and Oldham did whilst Scotland and Lewisham didn't etc etc etc.

If Scotland votes to leave the union that is very much a decision for the Scottish electorate.

It may be a consequence of leaving the EU, but there is an argument that this should have been considered before a referendum to take the UK out as a whole.

 

[Ban-jani]

It may be a consequence of leaving the EU, but there is an argument that this should have been considered before a referendum to take the UK out as a whole.

The referendum as it was in terms of structure was an utter farce.

Far too vague, no clarity on the next steps, didn’t take into consideration the fact different countries in the union have opposing views and was totally rushed.

 

[smudgedj]

So what.

Scotland did not vote Remain. The United Kingdom, of which Scotland is and has been a member for some 300 years, voted to leave. The brave Scottish leave voters got the result across the line. #hatefact

 

[Metal Biker]

Scotland did not vote Remain. The United Kingdom, of which Scotland is and has been a member for some 300 years, voted to leave. The brave Scottish leave voters got the result across the line. #hatefact

With fewer people turning out than those who did in the Scottish referendum just two years earlier.

I've also noticed an interesting difference in the choice of language;

"The UK voted to leave the EU"
"No, the majority of those who voted, voted to leave."

Also: "Scotland voted to remain..."
Not, the majority of those who voted in Scotland, just "Scotland voted to remain". As I say, interesting how it switches depending on the narrative.

 

[smudgedj]

Serious shit now

 

[Rascal]

My view has has always been that the main beneficiaries of the Empire as it was and the Union as it is now have always been the rich and the ruling classes.

Perfectly put.

I could expand my view into saying that I have always felt there is a certain arrogance surrounding being English that I have not found with the other constituent nations. This arrogance manifests itself in the Little Englander mentality and his dreams of Empire. Since WW2 the UK has struggled to find a role for itself in the world, the Empire has crumbled, the navy is no longer the largest afloat and it clings to the past almost as if it yearns for it. Rees Mogg with his Victorian attitudes is a classic example of wishing to return to how things were, those long golden summer days, the sound of leather on willow as cups of tea are quietly sipped and gentle applause ripples around the green in acknowledgement of a stoical rearguard action in the face of a hostile attack. In the last few hundred years Perfidious Albion has stood alone whilst fighting on foreign fields. It has led to English exceptionalism and arrogance that England (not Britain) is always right and there by the grace of god. What other nation would show the arrogance of sending troops with bright Red tunics into battle, it is a superiority complex that inhabits our nation. Any nay sayer is judged as a traitor or Marxist and this is being acted out in the BREXIT debate. That arrogance that we can stand alone because we are who we are and we will not be subservient to any other master, The Welsh, the Scots and the Irish are use to being subservient to London, the English hate being seen as subservient to anyone because of our history. Because of that arrogance that history brought to the English and because we stood alone. One of the most humourous facets of the whole Brexit debate is how the English have become a nation of historians, they can tell you about Dunkirk but not how to spell its proper name, they can tell you about Churchill but not about his disasters. This is all fed to the people by the rich and the ruling class because they themselves yearn for the times when the working class knew their place. That is why that arrogance took such a hit when vast swathes of the working class turned Brexit it on its head and voted leave, it was the culmination of the years of arrogance that had been shown towards the people.

 

[BobKowalski]

Serious shit now

Yep :)

I can picture the scene as we tell the EU that we have now installed (pause for dramatic effect) a clock. Not (they gasp) a clock. Yes. A clock we reply. Well that’s the backstop gone they say ruefully. Victory is ours we exclaim!

(Parliament votes down the revised WA sans backstop)

 

[blueinsa]

Yep :)

I can picture the scene as we tell the EU that we have now installed (pause for dramatic effect) a clock. Not (they gasp) a clock. Yes. A clock we reply. Well that’s the backstop gone they say ruefully. Victory is ours we exclaim!

(Parliament votes down the revised WA sans backstop)

They saw that Sky news had one in the top corner of their screen and thought that looks nice ;-)

 

[mcfc1632]

Which bit sounded sensible? The bit where we spunk all the money we've saved over the past few years on a project designed to bring the UK to its knees? The bit where he said it was unsustainable? Or the bit where we're papering over the cracks by creating more pretend policemen? Or the bit where expectations surrounding a no deal brexit have been downgraded from endless opportunity and prosperity to simply making sure we don't die. Sounds great.

Your glass is less than half empty mate

 

[Mon Autre]

Your glass is less than half empty mate

Which bit sounds sensible then?

 

[west didsblue]

Scotland did not vote Remain. The United Kingdom, of which Scotland is and has been a member for some 300 years, voted to leave. The brave Scottish leave voters got the result across the line. #hatefact

That doesn't negate my point. It just makes a different one.

 

[mcfc1632]

But him and his company using 'weapons grade' use of information and propaganda had absolutely nothing to do with the Brexit result. Nothing at all. Despite then having a history in this area, they had nothing to do with the Brexit result

At last you post something that we can agree on

 

[dave_blue12]

In a nutshell

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Is the UK leaving the EU more attractive than just England leaving the EU? Or Just Wales and England leaving?

Just, the talk of "independence" etc makes me wonder what desire there would be to be out on your own.

 

[aguero93:20]

She wants a deal, but she wants a deal where she gets everything and gives nothing.

 

[blueinsa]

Is the UK leaving the EU more attractive than just England leaving the EU? Or Just Wales and England leaving?

Just, the talk of "independence" etc makes me wonder what desire there would be to be out on your own.

The only talk of independence is from Nationalist parties in Scotland and NI.

 

[aguero93:20]

Yep :)

I can picture the scene as we tell the EU that we have now installed (pause for dramatic effect) a clock. Not (they gasp) a clock. Yes. A clock we reply. Well that’s the backstop gone they say ruefully. Victory is ours we exclaim!

(Parliament votes down the revised WA sans backstop)

You will bring us a shrubbery, or we will say 'NI' to you again!

 

[aguero93:20]

The only talk of independence is from Nationalist parties in Scotland and NI.

Nah there's been quite a bit from the English side as well.