Today's shooting in America thread

ChicagoBlue said:
Haha! Even I don’t get free flights to the game. However, if I ever knew you were on my flight, the drinks are on me!
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I've given up international flights with US carriers when they were charging me 8 bucks for a can of beer. I understand they're now offering free beer again but two flights was enough. Lufthansa, KLM or Swiss are the ones I look for now
 
idahoblues said:
I've given up international flights with US carriers when they were charging me 8 bucks for a can of beer. I understand they're now offering free beer again but two flights was enough. Lufthansa, KLM or Swiss are the ones I look for now
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A guy from Idaho liking his beer free and his flight attendants on the Aryan side. Shocker! :-D
 
ChicagoBlue said:
FWIW, I don’t trust ANYONE until they show me I can trust them. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but that doubt is what Gavin De Becker calls The Gift of Fear.

There are places in this world where I feel vulnerable. I don’t walk around gun in hand to provide a cone of certainty, but I do stay alert. I watch some people’s hands more than their faces, especially males that may appear to be physically threatening (I’m 6’2” and not a physically small man), and I take steps to ensure I stay the least vulnerable I can. I take a defensive posture in threatening situations (arguments on the train, shouting in the bar), because appearing non-threatening and, in case of trouble, running is the best self defence there is. Now, when I’m with my wife or kids, that protective cloak grows, and often me running isn’t going to help them stay safe, so other strategies are required, such as shelter in place while continuing a threat assessment.

Not until a physical threat of personal harm comes to my door, or that of my family, does a weapon even become part of the calculus. However, when it does, and it presents a real, credible, and defensible threat, it will be neutralized. That is what a gun is for.

I don’t want to fight in an era of people stomping on heads and multiple assailants on one victim, let alone the proliferation of knives and guns. If I lose a fight, I also lose the ability to protect my family. Heck, if I’m in a fight, I have already removed the cloak of protection from them, and they instantly become vulnerable, too.

In Illinois, there is NO RIGHT to shoot to protect property, only life. So, if someone breaks into my house, I go into “protect the family” mode. If a burglar is in the house, I have two choices: remain in place, in a defensive posture, or advance and confront...which is allowed. From there, if someone says “I’m not here to harm you, I just want your stuff” I don’t have the right to shoot him. If his adrenaline spikes from the startle and he approaches me forcefully, and threateningly, then he dies. As long as that happens when he is coming towards me and not fleeing or moving away from me, then I’m legally fine. If he’s running out of the door after hitting me in the head with a lamp, and I shoot him, then I may well be liable for manslaughter.

So, while not quite as complicated as flying an aircraft and knowing aviation law, I take the legal responsibilities of gun ownership very, very seriously and know the laws. Others? Maybe not so much, but then I’m not responsible for them.
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Right. You trust literally no one. But the unarmed innocents must trust you not just not to go fruit loops, or become a criminal, but not to make ANY mistakes with your weapon either. Because the consequences could be fatal. The question really I want to know the answer to is, "Do gunowners care about what non gunowners think or feel?"

You're a pilot. You explain things that are scary to passengers all the time, and soothe their worries. Do you do the same to non-gunowners?

Guns are a power play, a way to rebalance the power structure in a world where even a 6'2" strapping airline pilot feels like he could be powerless at any time in any place. And as with all power, guns corrupt.

Guns are also like alcohol. Most folks who drink have it under control, and it's not an addiction. Some others though . . . it's a crutch. It protects them from dealing with reality or personal insecurity or soothes old hurts.It's easy to become psychologically, then chemically addicted.

Same with guns. I believe many if not most gun owners are responsible. But, for some, it's a crutch. It protects them from personal insecurity, gives them a fantasy life ("I'm a protector of the innocent!" says the superhero) or helps them live down the painful memories of all those times Daddy said they weren't "man" enough or tough enough. In use, it rights perceived wrongs. It's justice. I'd guess every mass shooter runs through that wheel.

Gunoholics are the people who would barricade themselves inside their homes and shoot it out if the 2A was repealed and law enforcement came to remove their weapons, just as drunks fight rehab and embracing sobriety with every last drop of sweat until they lose everything.

Look, I know this is amateur psychology and a sample size of one, but glean from this what you will: I haven't met a gunowner who possesses one for personal protection who has ever said, "I know that me owning a gun may frighten you or your kids." I think they don't say it, because they actually don't care much. In fact, my bet is they are HAPPY you're frightened. That's the exact feeling of power they want to feel. And these are almost inevitably the guys who can go into great detail on makes, models, ranges, ammo -- the same way I do about golf clubs.

Yet for the hunters I know who shoot for sport (probably 60/40 of the 25 people or so I know who own guns), it's the exact opposite. In fact, one said "My gun is for hunting, not for my house." My old man said, "Hell, son, I can't hit a duck, it'd be even dumber for me to use a gun to stop a robber. They're smarter than ducks." These guys couldn't have told me shit about anything other than shotguns, and only if I asked.

I guess you have to ask yourself if your gun disappeared tomorrow with no hope of ever owning one again, how would that make you feel?

And of course I'd trust YOU with a gun -- you're a blue!
 
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
Right. You trust literally no one. But the unarmed innocents must trust you not just not to go fruit loops, or become a criminal, but not to make ANY mistakes with your weapon either. Because the consequences could be fatal. The question really I want to know is, "Do gunowners care about what non gunowners think or feel?"

You're a pilot. You explain things that are scary to passengers all the time, and soother their worries. Do you do the same to non-gunowners?

Guns are a power play, a way to rebalance the power structure in a world where even a 6'2" strapping airline pilot feels like he could be powerless at any time in any place. And as with all power, guns corrupt.

Guns are also like alcohol. Most folks who drink have it under control, and it's not an addiction. Some others though . . . it's a crutch. It protects them from dealing with reality or personal insecurity or soothes old hurts.It's easy to become psychologically, then chemically addicted.

Same with guns. I believe many if not most gun owners are responsible. But, for some, it's a crutch. It protects them from personal insecurity, gives them a fantasy life ("I'm a protector of the innocent!" says the superhero) or helps them live down the painful memories of all those times Daddy said they weren't "man" enough or tough enough. In use, it rights perceived wrongs. It's justice. I'd guess every mass shooter runs through that wheel.

Gunoholics are the people who would barricade themselves inside their homes and shoot it out if the 2A was repealed and law enforcement came to remove their weapons, just as drunks fight rehab and embracing sobriety with every last drop of sweat until they lose everything.

Look, I know this is amateur psychology and a sample size of one, but glean from this what you will: I haven't met a gunowner who possesses one for personal protection who has ever said, "I know that me owning a gun may frighten you or your kids." I think they don't say it, because they actually don't care much. In fact, my bet is they are HAPPY you're frightened. That's the exact feeling of power they want to feel. And these are almost inevitably the guys who can go into great detail on makes, models, ranges, ammo -- the same way I do about golf clubs.

Yet for the hunters I know who shoot for sport (probably 60/40 of the 25 people or so I know who own guns), it's the exact opposite. In fact, one said "My gun is for hunting, not for my house." My old man said, "Hell, son, I can't hit a duck, it'd be even dumber for me to use a gun to stop a robber. They're smarter than ducks." These guys couldn't have told me shit about anything other than shotguns, and only if I asked.

I guess you have to ask yourself if your gun disappeared tomorrow with no hope of ever owning one again, how would that make you feel?
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High powered rifles are used for hunting too
 
idahoblues said:
High powered rifles are used for hunting too
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My old man wouldn't shoot deer, etc -- only birds. Personal choice of his. I know a few of my buddies shoot game, but again those are the guys who don't talk about their weaponry.

I should caveat -- one ex-Marine pilot I know with a big arsenal does mow down wild pigs in rural Texas from a helicopter once a year with some pretty exotic shit. I think that's pest eradication, not hunting! He'd be in the "home protection" camp -- he talks about guns endlessly.
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
My old man wouldn't shoot deer, etc -- only birds. Personal choice of his. I know a few of my buddies shoot game, but again those are the guys who don't talk about their weaponry.

I should caveat -- one ex-Marine pilot I know with a big arsenal does mow down wild pigs in rural Texas from a helicopter once a year with some pretty exotic shit. I think that's pest eradication, not hunting! He'd be in the "home protection" camp -- he talks about guns endlessly.
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The Marine part gives that away
 
FogBlueInSanFran said:
Right. You trust literally no one. But the unarmed innocents must trust you not just not to go fruit loops, or become a criminal, but not to make ANY mistakes with your weapon either. Because the consequences could be fatal. The question really I want to know the answer to is, "Do gunowners care about what non gunowners think or feel?"
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I don’t. The safety of myself and my family are paramount in my mind. You have nothing to fear from me. The weapon doesn’t come out unless it is ready to be used, which I hope is never, so I’m not sure what mistake you are talking about. Do you ever make a driving mistake with that two ton weapon you drive at high speed?

You're a pilot. You explain things that are scary to passengers all the time, and soothe their worries. Do you do the same to non-gunowners?
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You assume I have any idea who is and is not a gun owner. I would assume most people have no idea I’m a gun owner, as it is not something I talk about.

Guns are a power play, a way to rebalance the power structure in a world where even a 6'2" strapping airline pilot feels like he could be powerless at any time in any place. And as with all power, guns corrupt.
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I assume your inference is that gun ownership has corrupted me. Some people might find that offensive.

Guns are also like alcohol. Most folks who drink have it under control, and it's not an addiction. Some others though . . . it's a crutch. It protects them from dealing with reality or personal insecurity or soothes old hurts.It's easy to become psychologically, then chemically addicted.
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You assert an equivalence with which I disagree, and then add psychological addiction to the corruption. You’re on a roll. Are you sure it was Econ and Stats and not and M.D. in Psychiatry?

Same with guns. I believe many if not most gun owners are responsible. But, for some, it's a crutch. It protects them from personal insecurity, gives them a fantasy life ("I'm a protector of the innocent!" says the superhero) or helps them live down the painful memories of all those times Daddy said they weren't "man" enough or tough enough. In use, it rights perceived wrongs. It's justice. I'd guess every mass shooter runs through that wheel.
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I’m going to assume we are still talking hypothetically, lest I take offense at your numerous accusations and characterizations.

Gunoholics are the people who would barricade themselves inside their homes and shoot it out if the 2A was repealed and law enforcement came to remove their weapons, just as drunks fight rehab and embracing sobriety with every last drop of sweat until they lose everything.
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Th equivalencies are strong with you, Jedi.

Look, I know this is amateur psychology and a sample size of one, but glean from this what you will: I haven't met a gunowner who possesses one for personal protection who has ever said, "I know that me owning a gun may frighten you or your kids." I think they don't say it, because they actually don't care much. In fact, my bet is they are HAPPY you're frightened. That's the exact feeling of power they want to feel. And these are almost inevitably the guys who can go into great detail on makes, models, ranges, ammo -- the same way I do about golf clubs.
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I would prefer that no one I know, including my neighbors, know that I have a weapon(s) in the house. The only person outside my immediate family who has ever seen them is a friend of my son who came by with my him unexpectedly while I was cleaning one. I have no desire to advertise my gun ownership. As for weapons knowledge, mine is relatively limited to the guns I own and use. I’m not a gun fanboy. They are a tool about which I want to know as much as I can so that I can maximize my mastery of them.

Yet for the hunters I know who shoot for sport (probably 60/40 of the 25 people or so I know who own guns), it's the exact opposite. In fact, one said "My gun is for hunting, not for my house." My old man said, "Hell, son, I can't hit a duck, it'd be even dumber for me to use a gun to stop a robber. They're smarter than ducks." These guys couldn't have told me shit about anything other than shotguns, and only if I asked.
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Given the level of training I have received, and the constant practice at the range in which I engage, I’m 100% confident I could drop anyone within anything resembling a threatening range. That’s not a boastful statement, but fact based on evidence and experience. It’s why I practice. Hell, even KDB has to practice passing, even though he’s the best passer of the ball in the world!

I guess you have to ask yourself if your gun disappeared tomorrow with no hope of ever owning one again, how would that make you feel?
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Thats silly, isn’t it? Do you think I would pine or lose sleep? Given your rather absurd hypothetical, I’d just get one with life. In the real world, I’d be out about $450 replacing it!

And of course I'd trust YOU with a gun -- you're a blue!
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That’s the same reason I wouldn’t shoot YOU! HAHAHAHAHA!

Ok, enough about me and guns. This is about people who have no federal and/or state training, and operate their weapons illegally. I’m not that guy. I’m a milquetoast, middle class, middle aged, professional who chose to get the training necessary to operate a weapon with professionalism and precision, not a nutcase with a grudge against the world or a specific group.

Take care and be well.
 
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