dadnlad
Well-Known Member
ref watch Dermot we can check off side to finest lines but we cant check keepers feet at a penalty, it either does one or the other
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Var debate 2019/20
- Thread starter Chi-town blues
- Start date
painful to watch Andy Gray talk sense but there we are, how can we deal with such exactitudes in the offside call when we are dealing not only with technology that can't allow for those calls but officials who, not necessarily through any fault, cant or dont consistently choose the right frame to pause it on.
JRockBlues
Well-Known Member
Where they should take the decision for offside is from the last frame before there's clear daylight between the part of the player who passed it to the goalscorer and before there's actual daylight between that body part and the ball. If that was done across the board it would at least be consistent and in theory benefit the attacker more than the defender if it was after there was a gap.
Ref Watch on Sky with Dermot Gallacher - talking about the VAR decisions in our game and claiming that VAR is perfect. No discussion about how the operators determine when the ball is played, or where the lines are drawn. I am fairly sure that there is human input in all of this, therefore it's subjective and open to error (or worse!).
Talk about missing the fucking point!
Talk about missing the fucking point!
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Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Just showed an incident on Vardy which Dermott Gallagher said would have been reviewed quietly but it's not a pen.
Far more of one than Salah gets.
And Maguire on Abraham isn't a foul & is 'too far back' , to be reviewed.
I fucking GUARANTEE this will not be a consistent viewpoint for all 3 questions as the season goes on.
Far more of one than Salah gets.
And Maguire on Abraham isn't a foul & is 'too far back' , to be reviewed.
I fucking GUARANTEE this will not be a consistent viewpoint for all 3 questions as the season goes on.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
painful to watch Andy Gray talk sense but there we are, how can we deal with such exactitudes in the offside call when we are dealing not only with technology that can't allow for those calls but officials who, not necessarily through any fault, cant or dont consistently choose the right frame to pause it on.
Make them do it, live on Sky, on the Sterling offside & try rolling the frame on or back & redrawing the lines, see what happens.
Prove there can only be one correct outcome, each time.
Make them do it, live on Sky, on the Sterling offside & try rolling the frame on or back & redrawing the lines, see what happens.
Prove there can only be one correct outcome, each time.
i dont want to labour points others have made (and probably with better knowledge) but it looked practically impossible to tell when the ball actually hits the assister's foot with that frame rate - a player could go from onside to off in a frame while the ball could have actually hit the assister's foot inbetween those 2 frames. I think this is a crazy amount of detail to go into and agree with Espirito Santo in many respects.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
i dont want to labour points others have made (and probably with better knowledge) but it looked practically impossible to tell when the ball actually hits the assister's foot with that frame rate - a player could go from onside to off in a frame while the ball could have actually hit the assister's foot inbetween those 2 frames. I think this is a crazy amount of detail to go into and agree with Espirito Santo in many respects.
They are blatantly lying, saying this technology 'proves' anything & should be stopped from disallowing goals on such fine margins.
agree with Espirito Santo in many respects.
So do you think that Spurs goal in the CL quarter final was ok then? Because it was the same as the Wolves goal, it hit an attackers arm, leading directly to a goal.
hampshireblue
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I'm not sure how they could determine when Silva actually played the ball. The frame they show is through a defender's legs and you can't tell if the ball is in contact with David or not. If it's inconclusive they should revert to the on field decision like in cricket.
SWP's back
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Two questions:They are blatantly lying, saying this technology 'proves' anything & should be stopped from disallowing goals on such fine margins.
1) do you think they’re going to get more decision correct this year than last year?
2) why do you think the club and Pep are in favour?
SWP's back
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Wherever you draw the metaphoric line, there would be a line and anything over by an inch of that line would then be too fine a margin for you.They are blatantly lying, saying this technology 'proves' anything & should be stopped from disallowing goals on such fine margins.
SWP's back
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They use more than one camera.I'm not sure how they could determine when Silva actually played the ball. The frame they show is through a defender's legs and you can't tell if the ball is in contact with David or not. If it's inconclusive they should revert to the on field decision like in cricket.
So do you think that Spurs goal in the CL quarter final was ok then? Because it was the same as the Wolves goal, it hit an attackers arm, leading directly to a goal.
hmmm. i think there is scope to pick and choose technological remedies - for instance ball line tech seems pretty smooth and quick for a non-subjective issue - but then offside calls look hideously fraught. However, you see some offsides not spotted that are yards off and obviously should be chalked off. I do have an issue with this millimetres stuff though. Handballs i havent considered yet.
i am not claiming to know any correct answers, just my opinion at the end of the day, but i do love football for being a game of fluidity, interpretation, arguments and so on. We are at a stage where the stakes have become too high monetarily and that is driving a push to getting the right answers for everything while the processes do not allow for it.
handballs look like another subjective area but if they're going down the path of anything that hits a hand, that's really harsh and definitely changes the rules of what the game was. For the spurs one it pissed me off rotten but to be honest, i moved on pretty quickly.
Neville Kneville
Well-Known Member
Two questions:
1) do you think they’re going to get more decision correct this year than last year?
2) why do you think the club and Pep are in favour?
1: Close decisions absolutely not, they are going to disallow goals incorrectly because the technology is flawed. Obvious bad offside mistakes will be improved yes.
2: Pep tends to trust people. Imo he is already starting to realise it's spoiling the game.
Two questions:
1) do you think they’re going to get more decision correct this year than last year?
2) why do you think the club and Pep are in favour?
I get your point, but we'll have to wait and see how it pans out. After all, that Andy Grey clip proves that the system is open to interpretation by the operators. I would rather those really tight decisions go in favour of the attacking team and leave VAR to decide the more clear cut ones.
Rammyblues
Well-Known Member
I don't mind VAR being used as long as the same criteria are used every time and that there is consistency in the decision making process. In cricket it seems the judges are trusted to make those decisions as they are in Rugby but for some strange reason I still get the impression they apply one set of rules for us and another to everyone else. No doubt that isn't the case but that is my feeling.
hmmm. i think there is scope to pick and choose technological remedies - for instance ball line tech seems pretty smooth and quick for a non-subjective issue - but then offside calls look hideously fraught. However, you see some offsides not spotted that are yards off and obviously should be chalked off. I do have an issue with this millimetres stuff though. Handballs i havent considered yet.
I think we are broadly in agreement!
meeesh
Well-Known Member
The hesitation was about waiting to see if City got an advantage.
The only advantage there could remotely have been,was if Mahrez got a shot away,and as he was falling to the ground in that motion,there was no chance of that happening.
Dean hesitated,for what seemed an age,plain and simple