I agree. It was the point where the EU internal minister threatened to use the border issues to starve the UK that sold it for me.So fucking well said
There is, IMO, so much shallow shite posted on these threads because the EU have weaponised the border issue, that it is difficult to take some posters seriously
Before that gains traction, it was ironic...I agree. It was the point where the EU internal minister threatened to use the border issues to starve the UK that sold it for me.
I would have let this go as most of it is sound (though with no mention of why Stormont is not meeting).Yes and we have had this debate before. The essential part of the agreement and the tricky bit was not having the same customs arrangement across the border but having and establishing a power sharing government in Northern Ireland so the good people of Northern Ireland could govern itself .
But you all fell out and you are ruled directly from England again . We don’t want that we want you to govern in stormont. You keep falling out .
And by the way I have not seen a single post by any leaver which says fuck the GFA , sod it. We want peace respected and the gfa agreement to be upheld. We don’t want a border and we want peace.
However at the moment the only political voice is the shouty DUP. I would love it if stormont could be reestablished and Northern Ireland had a proper political voice of its own. At the moment it is being used as a political football between the eu and the uk and Northern Ireland deserves better.
Fucking A.No-one wants to punish the UK.
But once we're out, and need the unanimous agreement of every member state for a deal (rather than qualified majority now), then Spain may raise Gibraltar, France will not agree to anything that reinforces London's financial clout, carmakers will see no reason to revive the dying UK car industry at the expense of their own, and other nations may have their particular issue. Punishment isn't the problem, it's an inevitable lack of helping the UK given that we've chosen to damage the EU as well as ourselves, and we've poisoned the well of goodwill
She is such an absolutely malign ****.Before that gains traction, it was ironic...
This is Priti Patel and using food shortages in Ireland as a negotiating lever.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tory-mp-threatens-ireland-with-brexit-food-shortages-890762.html
.
She is such an absolutely malign ****.
She is such an absolutely malign ****.
I would have let this go as most of it is sound (though with no mention of why Stormont is not meeting).
But seeing the likes makes me wonder if Brexiters really would want NI to have a proper political voice of its own. That voice would be firmly against Brexit.
Funny how a compromise mechanism devised to avoid political chaos and to have no border, supported by most Tory MPs including eventually Johnson, is now being touted as "using NI as a political football".Unlike you vic I am happy to listen to and respect the voice of others. It’s for the people of Northern Ireland to debate the future of Northern Ireland , even if that is to remain. At the moment it’s the uk the eu using Northern Ireland as a football in a bigger debate and that isn’t on.
And as for ‘ I would have let this go’ do me a favour who do you think you are my mum?
But really Brexiteers are not respecting the GFA if they go no deal, and it must be noted that the chief red line preventing a deal to go trough was the NI problem. It's intellectually dishonest to reject all sollutions that could allow for the GFA to be respected and then argue that the other is at fault for not making all sorts of concessions that would make one support a sollution that does respect it. The Brexiteers are weaponising the GFA as to try to extort the EU imho, and then try to pass the blame. Tell me what other sollution is there other than the backstop which the UK rejected?
It cannot realistically expect to dictate land borders like this - it's the sort of thing Stalin and Hitler tried to do
Its a good explanation. It seems in order to maintain the GFA the EU needs to make an exception and accept that it cannot impose a border on Ireland/NI. The EU really should have considered this before allowing Ireland full membership. It cannot realistically expect to dictate land borders like this - it's the sort of thing Stalin and Hitler tried to do. It seems the EU project is just not viable sadly.
No idea, but it seems back then at the height of the troubles the constitutional effects of a border / no border were not seen as insurmountable - perhaps where there was a will on the part of the EEC there was a way? Your point about countries joining the EEC/common market rather than the EU is a good one though.Didn't Ireland join the EEC/EU in 1973?
No idea, but it seems back then at the height of the troubles the constitutional effects of a border / no border were not seen as insurmountable - perhaps where there was a will on the part of the EEC there was a way? Your point about countries joining the EEC/common market rather than the EU is a good one though.
The EU does not need to bend at all IMO.But it will never work imho, it's a pipe-dream. Why would it push the EU to the table???
Besides, the chip thrown on the gambling table that implies a potential rift between Eu and Ireland is offset by the rift a no deal is creating within the Union.
It's populist BS imho, just a lot of tough talk how someone's superior negotiation skills will somehow make the EU bend and take all the UK's demands up the behind. I think the UK needs to stop the culture of "wishfull thinking".
The best way to manage a head on crash in your car is to put your brakes on and turn your steering wheel, not fit a higher performance airbag, even if 3 of the 5 people in the car want to carry on with the head on collision.The EU does not need to bend at all IMO.
I am not talking about macho negotiations - just basic good management and planning
The EU must/should do what us best for the EU
The UK should do what is best for it and that is to leave the EU in the manner which is best for the UK and that can be achieved.
So - straight - forward and basic, we - if we are committed to leave - should have been full on preparing for leaving without a deal in case an acceptable deal was not available.
This is just basic planning - and indeed it would make my statement absolutely spot on - even if in the end we see no movement from the EU then we will have been in the best position to leave anyway.
Time for this thread to be re-titled Brexit Off - probably not going to happen via Article 50. We need another route out, better to wait until the EU project disintegrates as the current beneficiary states lose out.
Of course I can't expect the EU to consider the GFA decades brfore it existed, I meant they should have considered the potential difficulties of the land border. I'm actually surprised the EU are so keen to perpetuate an imaginary border based purely upon sectarian / racial / ethnic grounds in this day and age, but that's probably a separate discussion.Which wasn't the point at all, but I think you knew that.
It's not the border that's the problem. It's the agreement in the GFA about what happens at the border.
You appeared to say that the EU should have considered the GFA (1989) when admitting Ireland (1973). I think that's the wrong way round (at best) - it's nothing to do with the EEC/EU whatever; it's more that the GFA was written without considering an option that the countries weren't in the same trade bloc.