Another new Brexit thread

[blueinsa]

But adds 0% to the debate (as usual).

Yeah it’s certainly no #FBPE retweet I will give you that........

 

[Saddleworth2]

In your humble opinion.

Yeah. true.

 

[stonerblue]

I see we have once again reached the point of racist /snowflake accusations being flung, and surely Godwins law will soon be invoked before once again the bm brexit thread regenerates like Dr who and arises again.
In the meantime I'd be grateful for an explanation of the demise of crispy pancakes in our shops. I was always rather partial to both the minced beef and chicken curry versions. If remaining in the EU would put these back in the frozen isle at Tesco I say let's revoke A50.

I'm almost certain Findus never did a 'chicken curry' pancake. They did do a chicken one but it had bacon in it.

 

[Blue Hefner]

So Corbyn has said and make a statement that he will do everything necessary to prevent a no deal brexit. A no deal brexit must be avoided at all costs they argue.

Ok Jeremy why did you and labour not just vote for mays deal and we would be out now with a deal.

Jeremy oh I didn’t like that deal

Boris , ok I will try and negotiate a new deal with the eu so we can leave it’s a new deal that you might support.

Remainers. Nope you cannot do that you are delusional the eu have categorically said they are not reopening the eu deal . Boris is pissing in the wind if he thinks he is going to get a new deal. But equally we cannot leave under any circumstances with no deal.

So Jezza you are going to do everything possible to stop no deal, but you

Won’t support the existing deal put forward
Believe as do remainers that the eu will not reopen the existing deal
But we can’t leave with no deal

This is how mad the argument has become on the remain side.

1We must stop no deal
2We must vote against mays deal and not support it
3 Strongly support and argue the view that the eu will not renegotiate the existing withdrawal agreement so that’s pointless , as why should they?

In order to get outcome 1 , you cannot argue points 2 and 3 as people do. In order to get the desired outcome of no deal you have to accept , if you believe in leaving with a deal , one of 2 or 3 .

I don’t think anyone has ever argued that Corbyn has handled this well.....

 

[Rascal]

I’m sorry Russ you’re a very good poster on this forum and it’s miles better for having you but I disagree entirely with this.

The leave campaign was better in 2016 but only because they had no problem whatsoever in lying to the degree that it wasn’t just overestimating or blurring reality, it was just fabricating rhetoric about not being able to make up our own laws or Turkey joining the EU. Remain was pathetic and that was because it was ran by those two cunts Cameron and Osbourne.

Since then though the case for Remain is incredibly detailed, truthful and comprehensive. Freedom of Movement, being a member of the largest free trading bloc in history, the UK being +4% GDP better off every year due to our membership despite the contributions, being part of a union that can rival the United States and China, peace in Europe as a result, the Good Friday Agreement, liberalism across the whole continent, workers rights, regulations on food and drink that is greater than our other western allies, the UK being a scientific world leader due to EU funding, having the EU act on climate change and other future issues being easier to address... the list goes on and if you want more reasons I’m happy to provide them.

I’ll await a viable argument on why we should continue to leave and what benefits that gives us. I’m open to a single one and I’m yet to hear one.

See it is that simple mate, but where were the leaders making that case? Leave had the better leadership like remain did in the 70s where Edward Heath was brilliant.

Take the current pension thread. I made a case on there that remain should be all over but I have not seen a single remainer argue the point.

 

[Daz_Blue]

Why?
Ur another one no deal Brexit won't affect.

Yes it will ...... my retirement pension is affected that I get from the UK ....... already lost $100 a month since the vote and will lose more when the pound gets devalued

 

[Rascal]

Well excuse me for thinking that the way to make a rational case for Remaining waa by concentrating on minds rather tham hearts.

It is rational, but whoever thought an electorate was rational. It is not, it votes according to perception and what resonates personally to their individual circumstances. Leave won hearts by appealing to an inate sense of Britishness that I don't believe actually exists anymore but it does in peoples minds. Trump did the same in America with his MAGA stuff, it appealed to hearts not minds.

 

[Metal Biker]

Great post rascal. I thought at the time of the referendum that although the leave campaign was like an EDL rally at times, that sadly the remain camp got down into the gutter with them with 'project fear' and the gamble failed. All very negative, and I think an attempt to play upon the fact that psychologically humans tend to respond more to the fear of loss than the prospect of a gain. This led to us being asked to choose between what (IMHO) were two sets of lies.

Absolutely my perception as well, which is why myself and many other leave voters paid no attention to Vote Leave or Farage's rantings and instead chose to focus on our issues with the EU, weighed up the pros and cons and decided, ultimately, that it was no longer something we could support, not without assurances made public.

Everyone accepts that the referendum campaigns were appalling in delivering any useful information, they were just campaigns to persuade using emotive, charged language, but whilst it's accepted people were not persuaded by Stronger In's message, it's not accepted that people were also not persuaded by Vote Leave's, and it makes me wonder why that is.

 

[Metal Biker]

Oh - such a devastating insult...

In reality you are only telling me that you are right and I must accept that and that you have no tolerance for me holding my view - there is an appropriate noun for people that act in that manner

"History of the internet" though mate, that's quite an acheivement!

 

[Metal Biker]

So Corbyn has said and make a statement that he will do everything necessary to prevent a no deal brexit. A no deal brexit must be avoided at all costs they argue.

Ok Jeremy why did you and labour not just vote for mays deal and we would be out now with a deal.

Jeremy oh I didn’t like that deal

Boris , ok I will try and negotiate a new deal with the eu so we can leave it’s a new deal that you might support.

Remainers. Nope you cannot do that you are delusional the eu have categorically said they are not reopening the eu deal . Boris is pissing in the wind if he thinks he is going to get a new deal. But equally we cannot leave under any circumstances with no deal.

So Jezza you are going to do everything possible to stop no deal, but you

Won’t support the existing deal put forward
Believe as do remainers that the eu will not reopen the existing deal
But we can’t leave with no deal

This is how mad the argument has become on the remain side.

1We must stop no deal
2We must vote against mays deal and not support it
3 Strongly support and argue the view that the eu will not renegotiate the existing withdrawal agreement so that’s pointless , as why should they?

In order to get outcome 1 , you cannot argue points 2 and 3 as people do. In order to get the desired outcome of no deal you have to accept , if you believe in leaving with a deal , one of 2 or 3 .

Corbyn: "I don't support the EU because I find it to be far too capitalist for my liking. I've been known to oppose it and vote against it's treaties in the past as I find it's current stance to be undemocratic. But my party and party members and voters mostly do not share my views, and I value leading my country ahead of my own feelings on the EU. But there are many Northern towns that support leaving the EU, and I'll need every vote possible to kick out the Tories at the next GE. So i'll keep giving answers and responses that satisfies nobody whilst I patiently wait for a GE to be called, and decide what to do from there once i'm in power".

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Even if it were a few months old it’s unlikely that many of the risks will have significantly diminished by Halloween. In particular, the model for Northern Ireland will still be unsustainable. The refineries will still probably close. I’m not aware of any steps being taken to prevent EU trawlers illegally fishing in Uk waters etc

Tricky one isn’t it.
We can protect tankers in The Middle East or fishing rights but not both such is the pitiful state of our navy.

 

[west didsblue]

Brexit looking good.

 

[Ban-jani]

See it is that simple mate, but where were the leaders making that case? Leave had the better leadership like remain did in the 70s where Edward Heath was brilliant.

Take the current pension thread. I made a case on there that remain should be all over but I have not seen a single remainer argue the point.

If you’re referring to the 2016 campaigns then you’re correct Remain was awful.

It’s because quite simply nobody had a clue to an alarming degree, not in the public or in Parliament or the media.

Remain didn’t get it’s act together and that was Cameron rushing things.

Leave just decided to win at all costs even if it meant lying 10x more than Remain.

Now it’s clear, the evidence is absolutely overwhelming, even some leavers on here have conceded leaving with no deal is shit and the WA is shit so let’s remain and have another crack further down the line.

 

[Ban-jani]

Brexit looking good.

Black and white.

There’s no argument to this data.

 

[cibaman]

See it is that simple mate, but where were the leaders making that case? Leave had the better leadership like remain did in the 70s where Edward Heath was brilliant.

Take the current pension thread. I made a case on there that remain should be all over but I have not seen a single remainer argue the point.

My reasons for voting remain were entirely negative. Firstly, I couldn’t bring myself to be on the same side of the argument as Farage & co. Secondly, I had absolutely no faith in our politicians making a success of extricating the UK from the EU.

I would have liked to have been more positive about remaining in the EU but I’m just not a huge fan. But does it really matter if I voted for negative reasons? I do lots of things simply to avoid negative consequences. I support vaccination. Is it really more valid to have a positive reason for doing something rather than wanting to avoid a negative outcome? It would have helped the Remain campaign if they had been able to promote positive reasons for Remaining, but I suspect that if they had they would still have been perceived by many as insignificant compared to the bright new world post Brexit

 

[George Hannah]

Black and white.

There’s no argument to this data.

Except the obvious truth that the downward trends are not necessarily connected to Brexit or that the previous upward ones are associated with EU membership. Many analysts argue that our economic performance over the last 40 years would have been significantly better outside the EU.

 

[west didsblue]

Except the obvious truth that the downward trends are not necessarily connected to Brexit or that the previous upward ones are associated with EU membership. Many analysts argue that our economic performance over the last 40 years would have been significantly better outside the EU.

It's just coincidence that the negative trends started the day after EU referendum day.
Makes perfect sense.

 

[Ban-jani]

Except the obvious truth that the downward trends are not necessarily connected to Brexit or that the previous upward ones are associated with EU membership. Many analysts argue that our economic performance over the last 40 years would have been significantly better outside the EU.

How you can look at a graph that has a complete and significant change of direction at the exact point that we’ve voted to leave and at the exact point Johnson confirms we’ll leave with no deal and come to the conclusion it’s not Brexit makes me worry for you.

You’re either absolutely naive or think we are. Either way it’s not good.

 

[west didsblue]

Black and white.

There’s no argument to this data.

There will be.

Now we've been told that the leave arguments are not based on facts and that they're based on emotion, there will be a wide range of emotive nonsense provided to dispute the cold hard facts.

 

[yerwot?]

Except the obvious truth that the downward trends are not necessarily connected to Brexit or that the previous upward ones are associated with EU membership. Many analysts argue that our economic performance over the last 40 years would have been significantly better outside the EU.

There is no "obvious truth" from brexit fans in any post, ever. Obvious LIES by the bucket-load, in fact reading them carries the risk of "passive lying syndrome" .