Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

And do you really believe we will adopt two different border policies? Two different immigration policies? Two different customs policies? One for NI and one for everywhere else? Do you really believe that is sustainable?

If we stick to the no land border commitment we will inevitably end up with a sea border.

Problem with that is...?

 

[Metal Biker]

And I don't like that.
Much prefare the european way of life.

It's no different to the American way of life.

The EU even wants to become more American, but with a "European" face.

 

[blueinsa]

And do you really believe we will adopt two different border policies? Two different immigration policies? Two different customs policies? One for NI and one for everywhere else? Do you really believe that is sustainable?

If we stick to the no land border commitment we will inevitably end up with a sea border.

I believe that the CTA will carry on as it has done for many years and that goods will be checked where needed away from the border.

Yes its a pain, yes it will mean paperwork and some infrastructure going up away from the border for checks on animal movements but it will get done because there is no way on Earth that Dublin will ever accept a request from the EU to erect a hard border to protect the SM and CU.

It simply is never going to happen.

Talks are well advanced on the above happening.

 

[BobKowalski]

American culture is a global culture with influences from people of every continent.

European is strictly 2000 years of self-centered European traditions.

I may be forced to mute this level of stupidity.

 

[mcfc1632]

Rubbish. I don’t recall the leaflet from the government, which was advocating remain, raising the issue of the problem of the GFA.

I don’t recall any detailed debates about Northern Ireland or warning from remainer side at the time of the referendum. I understand the issue was given airings in Ireland but not on the mainland

. I have also been on this thread long enough to know that this issue wasn’t debated on the original brexit thread either, prior to the vote. Those who were on that original thread will hopefully recall it was never really debated in any detail ( if at all)

The truth of the matter is the issue of brexit and it’s impact for remaining is actually a very good reason for remaining and like so many things on the remain side it was never raised at all as

They were too arrogant and thought people would vote remain, so they didn’t need to try; and
It’s easier and more fun to call people thick and racist.

Like soft brexit , the issue of Northern Ireland is a post result hook that the remain side have jumped onto now like they always knew it was going to be a problem. Well, you should have advocated your point at the time of the referendum not after, if you were all so clever as to realise the issue.

Btw Am still awaiting Gibraltar, but you are probably saving that chip once Ireland is resolved.

Yep - it is a topic that has been artfully weaponised by the EU

Amazing how many on here talk so profoundly about the subject when it was not even something that they gave a thought to before

 

[west didsblue]

I may be forced to mute this level of stupidity.

From someone who's never ventured out the UK (probably never left Gorton) he has a remarkable grasp of European culture and tradition.
Probably read about it in The Sun.

 

[Ban-jani]

Our Parliament rejected it. The person who created it is no longer in a position to negotiate.

EU must agree to a deal with the UK Government, not Theresa May. Both her and the WA are now an irrelevancy, consigned to history.

The ball is indeed in Johnson's court, and he's hit it right back saying "we need to re-negotiate".

EU: "Fault!"

This really isn’t on them. They’ve done what they can and put into place something that ensures the continued peace process in Ireland and Johnson doesn’t want it.

They don’t have to budge and they’re not morally obliged to do so either.

We’ve absolutely fucked our selves and deserve everything that’s coming to us.

The EU will be fine after no deal, a bit of a shake but they’re too big for it to affect the whole union, we on the other hand will be alone and struggling massively.

The whole rhetoric about it getting them to the table and the countless posters on here who said we’d need no deal to get another deal are yet again proved wrong.

 

[Ban-jani]

Sharing contingency planning requires the ability for people to comprehend context - and not wilfully misuse information

Recent events have demonstrated that the Govt. is quite wise to make this assessment

They’re not sharing any information though are they, other than “it’ll be fine”.

They could simplify it but they won’t because what’s coming is going to be very shit.

 

[mcfc1632]

Should have asked us. We had an inkling it may be a problem.

Agreed - and you guys should have been on these threads pushing that point before the vote

The majority of posts from Remainers commenting on the GFA on these threads are not from people from the island of Ireland though - and yet you would think that they were all scholars on the subject

 

[BobKowalski]

I believe that the CTA will carry on as it has done for many years and that goods will be checked where needed away from the border.

Yes its a pain, yes it will mean paperwork and some infrastructure going up away from the border for checks on animal movements but it will get done because there is no way on Earth that Dublin will ever accept a request from the EU to erect a hard border to protect the SM and CU.

It simply is never going to happen.

Talks are well advanced on the above happening.

Ah ‘some infrastructure...away from the border’. A bit like the Newry customs office bombing that was ‘infrastructure...away from the border’. Think we are making progress.

 

[Vic]

As would I, but May didn't want it.

Who cares about the ERG, the Tories, May, Parliament. This is about what the infrastructure of the people and businesses of the UK wants, and we want a deal, but our "Parliamentarians" are not listening to us or what we want, because they're too busy playing party politics or obsessing over "powah".

Brexit is not a terrible idea, because you just said "If you offered me that, i'd snap your hand off" That IS a 'brexit', one of many solutions that have been overlooked by May. There was my EFTA preferred option, the ideal "soft brexit" that solved all these raised issues; ignored.

A no deal brexit is a terrible idea, granted, but as has been pointed out, few are or were ever in favour of it and May's WA was supported only by herself and her lackies. Brexit is not worse than we currently have; having an FTA in Europe but being free to create more FTA's with other nations on other continents is "bad"? Remember that the EU only entered into trade deals that IT chose. Surely TTIP should be an example of what happens when you solely allow the EU to "negotiate" on our behalf.

Someone help me out with this as he ignores me.

'Brexit is not worse than we currently have; having an FTA in Europe but being free to create more FTA's with other nations on other continents is "bad"?'

Does he really think that we'll still be in a FTA from Iceland to the Russian border if we leave with no deal?

 

[Metal Biker]

The trouble is many of the voting public who voted Brexit want an end to freedom of movement, it’s not as simple as what’s best for the country because people’s opinions often mean we don’t get what is best.

Brexit is an awful idea, a FTA is worse than what we have, it’s an alright situation to end up in considering what’s happened and I’d snap your hand off because the alternative is much worse.

Some of them did, but many also voted not to end freedom of movement and then you have the remainers who definitely didn't.

So that's some leavers and all remainers who didn't want to see FoM end. That is what our Parliament should honour. If those who voted leave do not accept that, then at the next GE they can voice their displeasure and remove the MP who helped secure a brexit deal which included keeping FoM.

An FTA is not "worse" than what we have, it is exactly what we currently have, except that there are a number of provisos attached, such as paying into the EU budget, being a member of it's political institutions that again we have to pay for, but when an FTA is meant to solely be about trade, all that political gesturing is a waste of money and an inflated ego project by the EU which in this day and age is outdated. We have the UN for things like that.

 

[Metal Biker]

I may be forced to mute this level of stupidity.

Feel free, though you've ignored what was discussed earlier.

 

[west didsblue]

Some of them did, but many also voted not to end freedom of movement and then you have the remainers who definitely didn't.

So that's some leavers and all remainers who didn't want to see FoM end. That is what our Parliament should honour. If those who voted leave do not accept that, then at the next GE they can voice their displeasure and remove the MP who helped secure a brexit deal which included keeping FoM.

An FTA is not "worse" than what we have, it is exactly what we currently have, except that there are a number of provisos attached, such as paying into the EU budget, being a member of it's political institutions that again we have to pay for, but when an FTA is meant to solely be about trade, all that political gesturing is a waste of money and an inflated ego project by the EU which in this day and age is outdated. We have the UN for things like that.

You really do make it up as you go along don't you.
No wonder no one takes anything you say seriously.

 

[Vic]

Yep - it is a topic that has been artfully weaponised by the EU

Amazing how many on here talk so profoundly about the subject when it was not even something that they gave a thought to before

Just wow.

He's just admitted he never gave a thought to it before the referendum because he never noticed others were giving thought to it.

 

[mcfc1632]

Problem with that is, it was an all Ireland referendum. How do you get by the will of the people in the Republic.
Assume The North votes effectively for a hard border. Are you saying that the South gets a similar vote? I couldn't see that going down well within the UK in general.
I think you are definitely thinking along the right lines but there would be a lot of devil in the detail I'm sure.

Just my prediction

The vote to leave will be overturned - I put that at 85%

The UK will leave the EU - I put that at 15%

if the latter occurs - it will be following a GE that sees Boris retain power and results in a fudged agreement on the backstop that sees it pertain to N.I. only - with a promise that it will only be adopted until alternative arrangements can be made...…..

To be clear - these are not my preferences - just my prediction

 

[west didsblue]

Someone help me out with this as he ignores me.

It's better that way. You really don't want to end up in one of those interminable exchanges with him.

 

[blueinsa]

Ah ‘some infrastructure...away from the border’. A bit like the Newry customs office bombing that was ‘infrastructure...away from the border’. Think we are making progress.

You can hide behind criminals and terrorists Bob but it isn't for me I'm afraid and if they feel the need to bomb a livestock checkpoint then I'm sure the security services of the UK and Ireland will deal with them.

Seeing as you go back to 72, i will go back to this...

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/l...sit-on-bomb-as-i-was-late-for-coach-1-8795940

My Mum, myself and my unborn brother only didn't get on because my uncle gave us a lift as my Mum was due to give birth imminently.

Fuck the murdering bastards and forgive me for not giving a single shit what they think.

Send the SAS back in and hunt the twats down is my advice but thats me going off topic so apologies.

 

[Ban-jani]

Some of them did, but many also voted not to end freedom of movement and then you have the remainers who definitely didn't.

So that's some leavers and all remainers who didn't want to see FoM end. That is what our Parliament should honour. If those who voted leave do not accept that, then at the next GE they can voice their displeasure and remove the MP who helped secure a brexit deal which included keeping FoM.

An FTA is not "worse" than what we have, it is exactly what we currently have, except that there are a number of provisos attached, such as paying into the EU budget, being a member of it's political institutions that again we have to pay for, but when an FTA is meant to solely be about trade, all that political gesturing is a waste of money and an inflated ego project by the EU which in this day and age is outdated. We have the UN for things like that.

The government collapses if they don’t end FoM, that’s why, May as a remainer, put a red line on it. There’s what, 80 or so ERG Tory MP’s? The thin majority they have isn’t strong enough and that’s why it’s such a big issue.

Immigration was consistently in the top 3 reasons for leaving and it’s too big an issue. At this point in time, leaving with a soft Brexit and retaining the Four Freedoms would be entirely sensible and would ensure our economy continues to be successful. It would also make sense because of the leave winning margin being a slim one.

It’s just not going to happen I’m afraid.

 

[mcfc1632]

Just wow.

He's just admitted he never gave a thought to it before the referendum because he never noticed others were giving thought to it.

Nah - that is just you twisting the words of others

It seems to be your thing