Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ban-jani said:
What sovereignty is being surrendered?

We literally have a veto on the European Army, this myth that we have to go with it has been proven wrong many times.

The middle part is the biggest load of shit I’ve read in a while on here.

Imperialism? Seriously? You want to go there?

What country has the EU invaded?

You question was on how and why we’d be desperate, I’ve shown you and given you the expertise from someone who used to be in office in the nation’s government, who we’re hoping will replace most of our lost trade with.

Why bother asking me if you don’t care?
Click to expand...
You'd have no issues whatsover for the continent of Europe to suddenly have the largest army in the world? Yes we have a veto. Does vetoing suddenly stop the EDF from coming into existance? No, it doesn't. Does vetoing anything anymore have any onfluence on the EU? No, it just shoves us further and further away.

Now if you're going to answer with things like "that's the biggest load of shit i've read on here", when i've been civil and courteous this whole time, is it any wonder I choose not to delve into things further or wish to keep on one topic at a time? Be respectful or do one. I've not insulted your opinions on here, merely disagreed with you.

I said "echoes" of european imperialism. Read properly. Back in those days, European Monarchies believed that the "savages" of the world needed 'taming' and adopting a more "european civilisation" mindset, which was considered to be the most righteous, by the European Monarchies. The legacy left behind in Africa and Asia especially has not endeared Europe to those nations and their people. This concept that "europe should lead the way..."; there's just something about that mindset that's a bit off.

You don't want to respect that I have opinions that differ from yours, then why do you bother asking me anything?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
You'd have no issues whatsover for the continent of Europe to suddenly have the largest army in the world? Yes we have a veto. Does vetoing suddenly stop the EDF from coming into existance? No, it doesn't. Does vetoing anything anymore have any onfluence on the EU? No, it just shoves us further and further away.

Now if you're going to answer with things like "that's the biggest load of shit i've read on here", when i've been civil and courteous this whole time, is it any wonder I choose not to delve into things further or wish to keep on one topic at a time? Be respectful or do one. I've not insulted your opinions on here, merely disagreed with you.

I said "echoes" of european imperialism. Read properly. Back in those days, European Monarchies believed that the "savages" of the world needed 'taming' and adopting a more "european civilisation" mindset, which was considered to be the most righteous, by the European Monarchies. The legacy left behind in Africa and Asia especially has not endeared Europe to those nations and their people. This concept that "europe should lead the way..."; there's just something about that mindset that's a bit off.

You don't want to respect that I have opinions that differ from yours, then why do you bother asking me anything?
Click to expand...

The closest people to historic European imperialism in Britain support Brexit more than anyone else.

The EU’s army would be for defence and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Europe is constantly falling behind its nato targets and this should focus it to match the US. With the likes of Putin in the world we need to show strength and pull together with our allies.

You can’t begin to use the word imperialism unless you can back it up and you cannot. It really was an awful couple of sentences to read.

The EU is too liberal for Brexiteers and too supporting of workers rights and regulations, they’re couldn’t be further away from imperialism.
 
Ban-jani said:
The closest people to historic European imperialism in Britain support Brexit more than anyone else.

The EU’s army would be for defence and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Europe is constantly falling behind its nato targets and this should focus it to match the US. With the likes of Putin in the world we need to show strength and pull together with our allies.

You can’t begin to use the word imperialism unless you can back it up and you cannot. It really was an awful couple of sentences to read.

The EU is too liberal for Brexiteers and too supporting of workers rights and regulations, they’re couldn’t be further away from imperialism.
Click to expand...
Yeah, sure it would!!! How do the Russians feel about it?

We have NATO, EU hates that US is involved and wants it's own separate force to control without their involvement. Who would pay for this unwanted, unneeded EDF?

Which word would you prefer? Colonialism? Influence?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Yeah, sure it would!!! How do the Russians feel about it?

We have NATO, EU hates that US is involved and wants it's own separate force to control without their involvement. Who would pay for this unwanted, unneeded EDF?

Which word would you prefer? Colonialism? Influence?
Click to expand...

The EU hates NATO? Where the fuck have you got that from?

Neither, it’s not colonialism ffs lol, do you find it strange that countries queue up to join?

What do you think about Russia by the way? Fan of Putin?
 
Ban-jani said:
The EU hates NATO? Where the fuck have you got that from?

Neither, it’s not colonialism ffs lol, do you find it strange that countries queue up to join?

What do you think about Russia by the way? Fan of Putin?
Click to expand...
I never said the EU hates NATO I said the "EU hates the the US getting involved" and how it would prefer having it's own separate defence force free of US interference and involvement. Maybe "hate" was too strong a word, I must remember who i'm debating with and how emotional you get at types of language used.

What would you call the practices of Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Great Britain, France and Germany in the 19th Century, if not colonialism or imperialism?

Putin? He's a homophobic, dictatorial wankstain, dreaming of the rise of a Russian Federation that dominates the globe and evicerates it's enemies by looking at him funny. The type of guy who'd see a "european defence force" on his doorstep as justification to go to war with it.
 
Ban-jani said:
Why 5 years?

I’ve seen even prominent Brexiteers saying much longer than that.

What’s being positive going to do? We’re about to fuck ourselves on all levels and become an insignificant poorer country than we were.

Waving flags ain’t going to cut it mate.
Click to expand...

I'm not waving a flag. I voted to remain, but fully accept the result and now my focus is on how we best leave and make it the best result for the country. I don't see how being negative / moaning /whining is to our benefit.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
I never said the EU hates NATO I said the "EU hates the the US getting involved" and how it would prefer having it's own separate defence force free of US interference and involvement. Maybe "hate" was too strong a word, I must remember who i'm debating with and how emotional you get at types of language used.

What would you call the practices of Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Great Britain, France and Germany in the 19th Century, if not colonialism or imperialism?

Putin? He's a homophobic, dictatorial wankstain, dreaming of the rise of a Russian Federation that dominates the globe and evicerates it's enemies by looking at him funny. The type of guy who'd see a "european defence force" on his doorstep as justification to go to war with it.
Click to expand...

Where have you got that the EU hates the US being in NATO?

I’m not emotional believe me.

They were but how’s that the EU? That’s who we’re discussing. What do the EU have in common with the British Empire for example?

Or it will put him back in his box and realise his neighbour is too strong to take the piss out of, like he’s been doing recently?
 
RabidCity said:
I'm not waving a flag. I voted to remain, but fully accept the result and now my focus is on how we best leave and make it the best result for the country. I don't see how being negative / moaning /whining is to our benefit.
Click to expand...

That was almost believable until the last line.

For the record I’m happy for us to leave with a deal, as promised before the referendum.

There’s no mandate for no deal, there’s a mandate for a free trade agreement.
 
Ban-jani said:
Where have you got that the EU hates the US being in NATO?

I’m not emotional believe me.

They were but how’s that the EU? That’s who we’re discussing. What do the EU have in common with the British Empire for example?

Or it will put him back in his box and realise his neighbour is too strong to take the piss out of, like he’s been doing recently?
Click to expand...
The very idea they want an EDF instead of forging a stronger NATO should give some clue that things aren't rosy.

Then why fly off the handle over my usage of the word "hate", and not consider it a figure of speech?

Yes, they were, which is why i used the word "ECHOES". The EU's rhetoric "reminds" me of the concept of european imperialism; the act of "extending a nation's rule over foreign nations", the "nation" here being the EU, which is Germany, France and '25 others'. Trade deals where the EU's rules take centre stage, the demands of the partner being secondary in negotiation. You don't need military power to conquer others in this day and age, just a dominant economic one. Makes the concept of the EDF even more baffling; exactly who would we be defending Europe from? Who would be funding it, for what purpose? It'd be a logistical nightmare costing billions; any action would first need to be agreed by ALL members, then it'd need to be sanctioned by the UN.

Yeah, i mean look at how much the EU snarled over Crimea, and how much it wanted to get involved, but couldn't. That didn't set your alarm bells ringing? Do you want a war with Russia, is that it?
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
The very idea they want an EDF instead of forging a stronger NATO should give some clue that things aren't rosy.

Then why fly off the handle over my usage of the word "hate", and not consider it a figure of speech?

Yes, they were, which is why i used the word "ECHOES". The EU's rhetoric "reminds" me of the concept of european imperialism; the act of "extending a nation's rule over foreign nations", the "nation" here being the EU, which is Germany, France and '25 others'. Trade deals where the EU's rules take centre stage, the demands of the partner being secondary in negotiation. You don't need military power to conquer others in this day and age, just a dominant economic one. Makes the concept of the EDF even more baffling; exactly who would we be defending Europe from? Who would be funding it, for what purpose? It'd be a logistical nightmare costing billions; any action would first need to be agreed by ALL members, then it'd need to be sanctioned by the UN.

Yeah, i mean look at how much the EU snarled over Crimea, and how much it wanted to get involved, but couldn't. That didn't set your alarm bells ringing? Do you want a war with Russia, is that it?
Click to expand...

So you’ve no evidence to suggest they do, it’s a hunch?

Have you thought it may be a case of Europe getting its act together and fulfilling its obligation to defence spending, in a perhaps specific and more coordinated way?

The EU haven’t done anything that resembles colonialism or imperialism. It’s a club you join and leave whenever you want.

I’ve been shocked at some of the rhetoric you’ve used, it’s what you expect from the Brexit Party’s website.

The EU’s rules are made through treaties it’s members have signed. The leaders of the club enforce the rules everyone has agreed to. Again, what’s the problem?

Stop with the paranoia, please. You’re painting a picture that isn’t there.

No I don’t want a war with Russia. Two countries with enough power very rarely if ever go into war with each other. It’s why there hasn’t been a world war since the nuclear age really took off.

Putin is less likely to try something if he knows he’s going to be on the losing end and we’re stronger together.

It’s the whole point of NATO and I only see the EU army as furthering that.

If we leave or don’t leave and VETO, surely it’s happening anyway? Aren’t we better being a part of it?
 
Ban-jani said:
So you’ve no evidence to suggest they do, it’s a hunch?

Have you thought it may be a case of Europe getting its act together and fulfilling its obligation to defence spending, in a perhaps specific and more coordinated way?

The EU haven’t done anything that resembles colonialism or imperialism. It’s a club you join and leave whenever you want.

I’ve been shocked at some of the rhetoric you’ve used, it’s what you expect from the Brexit Party’s website.

The EU’s rules are made through treaties it’s members have signed. The leaders of the club enforce the rules everyone has agreed to. Again, what’s the problem?

Stop with the paranoia, please. You’re painting a picture that isn’t there.

No I don’t want a war with Russia. Two countries with enough power very rarely if ever go into war with each other. It’s why there hasn’t been a world war since the nuclear age really took off.

Putin is less likely to try something if he knows he’s going to be on the losing end and we’re stronger together.

It’s the whole point of NATO and I only see the EU army as furthering that.

If we leave or don’t leave and VETO, surely it’s happening anyway? Aren’t we better being a part of it?
Click to expand...
I said this to you earlier; we don't agree on this. It's not a viewpoint we're ever going to agree on.

People perceive Manchester City in a negative light due to our influx of money. We can defend that position all we want, but if people are against too much money coming into the game, you will never see eye to eye with them. It's a matter of perception; your view of the EU is positive, mine is currently negative. You forget that I was once supporting and positive of the EU, but it's made decisions since then that have changed my perception of it.

I do not like the direction the EU purports to want to be, i'm not even happy with the status of power it has right now. Some want more, I want it to have less.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Some of them did, but many also voted not to end freedom of movement and then you have the remainers who definitely didn't.

So that's some leavers and all remainers who didn't want to see FoM end. That is what our Parliament should honour. If those who voted leave do not accept that, then at the next GE they can voice their displeasure and remove the MP who helped secure a brexit deal which included keeping FoM.

An FTA is not "worse" than what we have, it is exactly what we currently have, except that there are a number of provisos attached, such as paying into the EU budget, being a member of it's political institutions that again we have to pay for, but when an FTA is meant to solely be about trade, all that political gesturing is a waste of money and an inflated ego project by the EU which in this day and age is outdated. We have the UN for things like that.
Click to expand...

I would disagree with all remainers wanted FOM to remain, a bit like all leavers are not racist but all racists are leavers.
 
hilts said:
I would disagree with all remainers wanted FOM to remain, a bit like all leavers are not racist but all racists are leavers.
Click to expand...
It would be an intriguing argument to hear a remainer plead the cause to remain but wanting an end to FOM, tbh.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
It would be an intriguing argument to hear a remainer plead the cause to remain but wanting an end to FOM, tbh.
Click to expand...

There are positives and negatives to FoM.

Removing it right away like Patel is aiming to do is utterly stupid and will inevitably lead to problems.

I personally like it overall and I also think that if we didn’t have it we’d be staying in the EU.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top