Another new Brexit thread

[Rascal]

Dianne Abbott

Huh?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Huh?

She is racist.

 

[RabidCity]

She is racist.

Agreed.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Huh?

Diane Abbot has claimed Brexit was triggered by racists who did not like seeing people who look 'foreign' on their streets. She Branded Brexiters "Stupid and Racist"
2) She said Brexit supporters had attacked ethnic minority voters afterwards but has no evidence to back this up
2) Said when people spoke about immigrants, often included people like her from ethnic minority backgrounds who had been British for generations (Her Parents are Jamaican, she has been brought up traditionally Jamaican. Her loyalties are clearly biased towards West Indian people).
3) "London shouldn't have another white middle ages mayor"
4) "Blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" are unsuitable as nurses because they had "never met a black person before"
5) Abbott tweeted "White people love playing 'divide and rule' We should not play their game" in 2012
6) Abbott suggested that taxi drivers discriminate on racial grounds, tweeting that she was "Dubious of black people claiming they’ve never experienced racism. Ever tried hailing a taxi I always wonder?"
7) Abbott captures a central political fact, which is that white people in western societies have benefited from their histories of colonial exploitation. .She used the hashtag "tactics as old as colonialism."
8) “West Indian mothers would go to the wall for their children”, suggesting others would not, Andrew Neil responded: "So black mums love their kids more than white mums, do they?" She could not bring herself to say mothers of every race love their children just as much.
9) The MP was investigated by the Committee on Standards and Privileges in 2004 when it emerged she had failed to declare earnings of £17,300 for appearances on The Week.
10) Has a charity that helps black children only in education and spent 29K of its 35K budget on a party for Parliament.

11) Missing a Brexit Vote claiming she has a migraine. We don’t believe her.

12) Another racist attack on white people. More so men, again. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/76...acks-radicalisation-white-men-sky-sophy-ridge

Dianne Abbott voted remain ergo not all racists voted leave

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Huh?

Also Jeremy Corbyn claims to have voted remain. Him and his supporters they don’t seem to like Jewish people.

Do you need anymore examples of racism on the remain side.

 

[Damocles]

Good points. Much of the lexicon is diversionary and that is not helping democracy. My biggest issue is with the idiotic "will of the people". A phrase so vacuous and misleading it astonishes me it got so much traction.

It's no different from "change" or "take back control" or "for the many not just the few". Political slogans are purposely designed to be vacuous because then they can pretty much mean anything that you want them to mean depending on your usage of them. Also, they're a blank slate in which people tend to fill in their own interpretation that supports their views so ultimately they mean something different to everyone and everybody agrees how good of a thing it is. It's an old Barnum trick.

Racists by nature are dim witted, ignorant and bigoted.

No they're not. They're people with extreme beliefs.

Semi-related but one of my bugbears about Hitler and the Nazis is that people try to paint them as totally inhumane and evil and almost a complete other species from us. This has always bothered me because it shirks our collective responsibility and doesn't teach the lessons learnt. The Nazi's didn't genocide people because they were inherently "different" from us, they genocided people because it sounded like a reasonable idea to them. They were humans no different from anyone else, but the escalation and normalisation of the dehumanisation of the Jews brought them to a place where "shall we kill them all instead?" wasn't a totally crazy idea. I'm sure in 1930 then it would have been met with gasps and many furrowed brows. In 1942 the temperature had risen to the point where this was not just a sensible idea but almost a logical and obvious solution.

Racism is a frog boiling in the pot issue. Nobody wakes up one day and just decides that they hate black people. It's a slow process over the course of many years where each step in itself is small and insignificant but only when you step back and take it in context can you see how it happens. Same with all extreme ideologies; terrorism and such.

Never believe that your enemies are stupid or evil. These are words used in order to over-simplify the actions or thoughts of people and don't tell us very much about anything apart from how superior we are to them.

Always see their logic wherever possible however horrifying this may be. You cannot defeat an enemy which you don't understand, which is almost the exact reason why extreme opinions such as fascism and terrorism still exist​

 

[Damocles]

She is racist.

I think it's better termed that she's said some things we consider racist. It would be hard to argue that she's a flat out racist.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I think it's better termed that she's said some things we consider racist. It would be hard to argue that she's a flat out racist.

You can say that about anyone

 

[hgblue]

I honestly believe this did pass many by.

Either that, or the racist jibe is a total red herring used by Remainers to belittle Leave voters. To be concerned about the number of people coming into your country and whether the infrastructure is in place to cope with the influx, is a perfectly reasonable concern and not remotely racist.

 

[hilts]

I have always found it quite remarkable that the UK, a nation that has thrived because of open borders and freedom of movement between its separate constituent nations has become so fervently against open borders.

Its like the lessons of history were never learnt or indeed ever taught.

I don't believe though for one minute that everyone who voted leave is a racist, but I do believe every racist voted leave.

And you would be wrong in that last sentence it gets quoted a lot mind, can we also name all the countries that don’t have freedom of movement and maybe tell us what led them to this racist led policy?

Also I did a post on the benefits/negatives of uncontrolled immigration. It wasn’t replied to probably as we haven’t heard enough of Boris,backstop,Boris,backstop,Boris,backstop.

Carry on though cracking thread.

Boris,backstop

 

[hilts]

If every racist voted Leave then they must have been pretty dim witted. The Leave proposal was to replace a system where mainly White, mainly Christian people would have an automatic right to come here, with a points based system which would treat all people regardless of race or religion equally.

You can actually replace any moral argument they have(economy excepted) with but I wanted to stay in no fair.

 

[Rascal]

Diane Abbot has claimed Brexit was triggered by racists who did not like seeing people who look 'foreign' on their streets. She Branded Brexiters "Stupid and Racist"
2) She said Brexit supporters had attacked ethnic minority voters afterwards but has no evidence to back this up
2) Said when people spoke about immigrants, often included people like her from ethnic minority backgrounds who had been British for generations (Her Parents are Jamaican, she has been brought up traditionally Jamaican. Her loyalties are clearly biased towards West Indian people).
3) "London shouldn't have another white middle ages mayor"
4) "Blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" are unsuitable as nurses because they had "never met a black person before"
5) Abbott tweeted "White people love playing 'divide and rule' We should not play their game" in 2012
6) Abbott suggested that taxi drivers discriminate on racial grounds, tweeting that she was "Dubious of black people claiming they’ve never experienced racism. Ever tried hailing a taxi I always wonder?"
7) Abbott captures a central political fact, which is that white people in western societies have benefited from their histories of colonial exploitation. .She used the hashtag "tactics as old as colonialism."
8) “West Indian mothers would go to the wall for their children”, suggesting others would not, Andrew Neil responded: "So black mums love their kids more than white mums, do they?" She could not bring herself to say mothers of every race love their children just as much.
9) The MP was investigated by the Committee on Standards and Privileges in 2004 when it emerged she had failed to declare earnings of £17,300 for appearances on The Week.
10) Has a charity that helps black children only in education and spent 29K of its 35K budget on a party for Parliament.

11) Missing a Brexit Vote claiming she has a migraine. We don’t believe her.

12) Another racist attack on white people. More so men, again. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/76...acks-radicalisation-white-men-sky-sophy-ridge

Dianne Abbott voted remain ergo not all racists voted leave

It was a very interesting and enlightening read until I read the source.

Abbot is guilty of stupidity, I grant you that.

I don't know why you have included her in the debate but lets see if I can defend her points as I have nothing else to do.

1/ I agree, it probably was triggered because of peoples concerns with foreigners. After all before the election that created the parliament that passed the referendum vote BREXIT was about 12th in peoples priorities. The campaigns of Farage and his ilk against immigration and that disgusting poster he used helped create the conditions for Brexit.

2/ There was a spike in racist incidents after the Brexit vote

3/ I agree most people from the middle ages are dead

4/ Maybe a valid concern if the Finnish nurses were expected to deal with conditions like sickle cell

5/ I agree we should not be playing the divide and rule games of the predominantly white establishment

6/ Purely anecdotal. Maybe taxi drivers read the Daily Express and don't like her

7/ 100% correct, the UK benefitted hugely from colonialism, anybody who says different is a fool

8/ Semantics maybe, but she should have made it clear. Although it is quite correct that other cultures value family more than us. Sadly

9/ Hopefully she was sanctioned appropriately as any MP who does this sort of thing is a disgrace

10/ Don't quite see the point being made, but if the party thrown was to raise funds for the charity, surely every charity does that.

11/ Not believing somebody is hardly proof of anything. Maybe she did have a migraine, maybe she didn't, why does it matter

12/ I refuse to click on links to the Daily Express as its as truthful as the Sunday Sport


If that is your proof she is racist then I really feel sorry for you. Like I said she is guilty of stupidity, her electorate like her though and they keep voting for her.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

It was a very interesting and enlightening read until I read the source.

Abbot is guilty of stupidity, I grant you that.

I don't know why you have included her in the debate but lets see if I can defend her points as I have nothing else to do.

1/ I agree, it probably was triggered because of peoples concerns with foreigners. After all before the election that created the parliament that passed the referendum vote BREXIT was about 12th in peoples priorities. The campaigns of Farage and his ilk against immigration and that disgusting poster he used helped create the conditions for Brexit.

2/ There was a spike in racist incidents after the Brexit vote

3/ I agree most people from the middle ages are dead

4/ Maybe a valid concern if the Finnish nurses were expected to deal with conditions like sickle cell

5/ I agree we should not be playing the divide and rule games of the predominantly white establishment

6/ Purely anecdotal. Maybe taxi drivers read the Daily Express and don't like her

7/ 100% correct, the UK benefitted hugely from colonialism, anybody who says different is a fool

8/ Semantics maybe, but she should have made it clear. Although it is quite correct that other cultures value family more than us. Sadly

9/ Hopefully she was sanctioned appropriately as any MP who does this sort of thing is a disgrace

10/ Don't quite see the point being made, but if the party thrown was to raise funds for the charity, surely every charity does that.

11/ Not believing somebody is hardly proof of anything. Maybe she did have a migraine, maybe she didn't, why does it matter

12/ I refuse to click on links to the Daily Express as its as truthful as the Sunday Sport


If that is your proof she is racist then I really feel sorry for you. Like I said she is guilty of stupidity, her electorate like her though and they keep voting for her.

She is racist she voted remain. Your smart arse statement that all racists voted leave is bollox

 

[Damocles]

You can say that about anyone

Not really. She's spent her entire career trying to help white working class people through her constituency work and her broader stuff in the former Government. If she's a racist then helping a ton of white people with their problems and trying to put more money in the pockets of the overwhelmingly white working classes seems to me to be a bit of an own goal.

 

[Rascal]

Also Jeremy Corbyn claims to have voted remain. Him and his supporters they don’t seem to like Jewish people.

Do you need anymore examples of racism on the remain side.

It appears you think i voted remain.

I think most Labour leavers will be on the left of the party where pro-Palestine sentiment is the strongest and that may indicate why this supposed hatred of Jews comes from. You see you are making my point for me.

Nice one

 

[Damocles]

I don't know why you have included her in the debate

Oh yes you do lol

 

[Damocles]

3/ I agree most people from the middle ages are dead

Actually proper lol'ed at that

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

It appears you think i voted remain.

I think most Labour leavers will be on the left of the party where pro-Palestine sentiment is the strongest and that may indicate why this supposed hatred of Jews comes from. You see you are making my point for me.

Nice one

No I am just proving that all racists never voted leave. A statement you made with such gusto.

 

[hilts]

She is racist she voted remain. Your smart arse statement that all racists voted leave is bollox

You can’t argue with that brilliant logic by Rascal, all Racists voted leave based on his detailed analysis of.... oh wait fuck all just totally fabricated bollox. However quote a member of his party saying racist type stuff and it’s just her being a little silly. He will be telling us Jezza got lost again on his latest freedom fighter memorial.

Cracking thread this.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

You can’t argue with that brilliant logic by Rascal, all leavers are racist based on his detailed analysis of.... oh wait fuck all just totally fabricated bollox. However quote a member of his party saying racist type stuff and it’s just her being a little silly. He will be telling us Jezza got lost again on his latest freedom fighter memorial.

Cracking thread this.

Isn’t it silly.