Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

Another one. Are you saying that Sun readers in Liverpool have less capacity for intelligent reasoning than Sun readers elsewhere? The whole point is that Sun readers everywhere have less powers of intelligent reasoning than most other people - that is why they read the Sun. So they are more likely to accept uncritically what they are fed by the paper. The paper was virulently anti-EU (not the Irish issue of course, that is pro-EU) so - the research suggests - when they voluntarily switched to the pro-EU Mirror they were more likely to vote remain.

I really should not need to explain this to anyone capable of intelligent reasoning.

Oh - so that is the basis of your 'intelligent reasoning' -;-)

 

[BobKowalski]

But not voting for the existing withdrawl agreement or any amended agreement which Boris brings,

Well no. Obvs. :)

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Since the prospect of No Deal actually became apparently real with this current PM, how many opportunities have MPs had to vote? And which MPs have already said that they won't for any deal at all?
Answers are zero and the ERG.

None but equally not one of them has said they are ready to vote for the withdrawal agreement ( or what amends to it they would be able to vote for it)

They are allowed to make statements you know. Even though they are not in parliament

They have made a pretty significant statement today you know???

They could have said they are willing to look again at supporting the withdrawal agreement to prevent no deal and we can leave on 31/10

They haven’t have they they have just said

I dont like it and I hate the Tories and I am going to cause as much disruption as possible because I like causing trouble.

They should just be honest they are not intending to prevent no Lib debs and the snp want a revocation and labour just want to cause trouble.

They should be honest. Come31/10 something needs to happen another extension and more nonsense isn’t good for anyone. That is just another kick into the long grass . Revoke or leave with a deal seems like the only sensible options. Extending again would be ridiculous.

 

[west didsblue]

None but equally not one of them has said they are ready to vote for the withdrawal agreement ( or what amends to it they would be able to vote for it)

They are allowed to make statements you know. Even though they are not in parliament

They have made a pretty significant statement today you know???

They could have said they are willing to look again at supporting the withdrawal agreement to prevent no deal and we can leave on 31/10

They haven’t have they they have just said

I dont like it and I hate the Tories and I am going to cause as much disruption as possible because I like causing trouble.

They should just be honest they are not intending to prevent no Lib debs and the snp want a revocation and labour just want to cause trouble.

They should be honest. Come31/10 something needs to happen another extension and more nonsense isn’t good for anyone. That is just another kick into the long grass . Revoke or leave with a deal seems like the only sensible options. Extending again would be ridiculous.

Agree with your concluding paragraph. It's not just the opposition that needs to be honest though. Johnson needs to stop telling lies and he needs to start putting country before party. This means not pursuing the wet dream of the BXP and ERG just to placate them so he can cling to power, and admitting that No Deal would be a lot more ruinous for us than it would be for the EU. He needs to fight back against the wankers pulling the strings for No Deal but sadly it doesn't look like he has the balls to do it.

 

[mcfc1632]

If we had voted narrowly to Remain and a Leave dominated Parliament had taken us out anyway you would feel the same way?

An astute question

I am looking forward to reading the answers that will, I am sure, surely evidence honesty and objectivity

 

[mcfc1632]

Yet more nonsense, and directed in the usual smug know all way that caused your side to lose the vote.
I know you'd prefer it if there were no conflicting views to your own ever allowed to be presented, and that people
should be forced to read what you tell them, but they don't, won't and never will.
The Dippers banter is simply that, one we all exploit on here without remorse or pity, but it's still, unless your a complete moron,
just that.

I am looking forward to a more 'intelligently reasoned' post to support that really wierd narrative

Could be a fun exchange

 

[mcfc1632]

If a leave dominated Parliament/Govt was elected on the basis of a detailed route out of the EU and a clear idea of what the future relationship would be (close, diverged, Norway or Swiss based etc) and specific arrangements for NI then they would be at liberty to do so.

Just as the 2017 Parliament returned a hung Parliament and a majority against a no deal Brexit and is within its rights to block such an outcome.

Tut tut - poor post for you

That would be a GE

Not a referendum

This HoC decided to take direction in thus matter via referendum

1/10 - must do a lot better

 

[joe123]

If we had voted narrowly to Remain and a Leave dominated Parliament had taken us out anyway you would feel the same way?

We’d still have the same problem tho as there’s no majority agreement on what leaving looks like

 

[yerwot?]

quote

Also - if everybody had boycotted the Guardian - then the Leave majority would have much larger

There are two sides to most coins[/QUOTE]
For this particular coin, heads we leave tails we leave, had on one side the Guardian circulation itro 250k, converse had the sun/mail/express/telegraph/star/bbc/itv/sky the likes of cambridge analytica manipulating twitter/facebook etc. For the millions of disen
nfranchised voters the despicable lies on the bus and the racist propaganda by the racist farage, shamelessly trumpeted in the media, accounted for the turnout/result. Everyone knows it, but the deflections, deviations, obfuscations, spin and lies claimed "Everyone knew it was a vote against the EU" , repeated over and over by the media, which the micro-world of BM illustrates so tellingly. Here we are again, round ten and Still brexit claim it was a "democratic" process. To paraphrase an american general, to save the UK, first we have to destroy it.... for it's own good of course, because the brexit version of democracy is far more worthwhile than jobs and houses and the NHS and education and all the rest that we are about to lose. When the supreme court rules that politicians are allowed to lie their arse off with no comebacks, the country is truly shafted, politically, socially and financially, led by a handful of billionaire far-right moguls and cheered on by the thatcherists that seek a return to the horrors of the victorian era, eagerly championed by the dregs of her cabinet. From the helter-skelter stampede to crash out, it was obviously, painfully so, that brexit was a far-right coup, disguised as "the will of the people", a voxpop to solve all our woes, and kick out all them parasites, and empire 2.0 is guaranteed. Project Bollocks, to truth, to integrity, to social justice.

 

[mcfc1632]

And before you go off on one again like a spoilt kid, I'll respond to any post I want without being told what to do by you.

Hmmm

Without going off on one like a spoilt kid you say;-)

 

[mcfc1632]

You can’t just keep replying to me trying to take the piss and then keep saying “I bet you respond” - “I bet you have to have the last word”.

You’re a middle aged man ffs, grow up.

If I want to respond to you, I fucking will alright?

I bet you respond to this message.

Oops you did it again.....

Just me trying to act younger than my years;-)

 

[Vic]

Nope - certainly not deliberately. That would be disingenuous and I leave that to others

Cannot see why you think that I was missing the point?

You - and others - are taking comfort that you seem to be on the same capability level of intelligent reasoning as scousers - that is what the posts are saying

That makes you feel good about yourself - fair play to you. Seems a low benchmark to me though I must say - and not something that I would be getting all pumped up about

.

Oh - so that is the basis of your 'intelligent reasoning' -;-)

You muddied the waters with the anti-scouser irrelevancies. The point of the original research was obvious. It just happened that because of the boycott of the Sun there was a control sample, so it's possible to compare the voting pattern of areas with large / small numbers of Sun readers fed with anti-EU propaganda.

"Intelligent reasoning" was your choice of words. I think yours has let you down.

 

[west didsblue]

Hmmm

Without going off on one like a spoilt kid you say;-)

Hmmmm

@Rascal - did my post answer the questions you posed? It after all was you I promised to get back to and you that I was seeking to show respect to, by providing a full answer to the questions you posed.

@WDB - I could not give a single fuck what you think - and I accept that you make it clear that you are equally contemptuous of myself - I will just have to bear that cross and hide my disappointment.

@others I would suggest the statements:

"Your comment about Remainers suggesting that the position of Leavers is to stop immigration is risible. Of course it's not true that Remainers suggest that ALL leavers want to stop immigration, but to deny that this isn't the view of a significant proportion of them is laughable."

Provide a lesson in how people 'twist words' to seek to attack other posters

This is reference to a post where I clearly say:

"A lot of Remainers - generally, not aimed at you - lazily/deliberately seek to suggest that the position of Leavers is to STOP immigration" I do not say all - and the truth of what I assert here is proven throughout these 3 threads since 2016. I am confident that my views would be echoed by a lot of Leavers.

and, also in that post, with regard to the role of immigration in the referendum:

"Yes - for a lot of people this was a big issue." - hardly me denying it is it.

@WDB - I get it - you detest everything that I post - you simply must jump on any and every post I make to seek to demean, deride etc.

I have asked you to take if to PM - as per the CoCs - you have repeatedly refused - if you had not this post would be via PM

I have asked you to put me on ignore if I fuck you off that much - you have refused

I have limited the number of posts of yours that I respond to - to save others having to witness the exchanges. You have not reciprocated and make countless snide comments either directly in reply to my posts or indirectly though snide asides to other Remainers

I would ask again that you either take things to PM or put me on ignore - or even better - just get over me, the attention is not flattering and you need to move on with your life.

 

[mcfc1632]

I genuinely believe you don’t live in reality.

I’ll keep it simple because I’m not going to allow you to waffle around the point and purposely miss the question.

Yes

You clearly do not understand - and no amount of squirming can hide that

Since Johnson has been much stronger than May when it comes to no deal, have the EU moved at all on the backstop?

Just a yes or no answer will be needed.

 

[Ban-jani]

@mcfc1632

You’ve bollocks’d up the quote so have to reply like this.

Can you tell me how they’ve moved?

 

[hilts]

 

[mcfc1632]

quote

Also - if everybody had boycotted the Guardian - then the Leave majority would have much larger

There are two sides to most coins

For this particular coin, heads we leave tails we leave, had on one side the Guardian circulation itro 250k, converse had the sun/mail/express/telegraph/star/bbc/itv/sky the likes of cambridge analytica manipulating twitter/facebook etc. For the millions of disen
nfranchised voters the despicable lies on the bus and the racist propaganda by the racist farage, shamelessly trumpeted in the media, accounted for the turnout/result. Everyone knows it, but the deflections, deviations, obfuscations, spin and lies claimed "Everyone knew it was a vote against the EU" , repeated over and over by the media, which the micro-world of BM illustrates so tellingly. Here we are again, round ten and Still brexit claim it was a "democratic" process. To paraphrase an american general, to save the UK, first we have to destroy it.... for it's own good of course, because the brexit version of democracy is far more worthwhile than jobs and houses and the NHS and education and all the rest that we are about to lose. When the supreme court rules that politicians are allowed to lie their arse off with no comebacks, the country is truly shafted, politically, socially and financially, led by a handful of billionaire far-right moguls and cheered on by the thatcherists that seek a return to the horrors of the victorian era, eagerly championed by the dregs of her cabinet. From the helter-skelter stampede to crash out, it was obviously, painfully so, that brexit was a far-right coup, disguised as "the will of the people", a voxpop to solve all our woes, and kick out all them parasites, and empire 2.0 is guaranteed. Project Bollocks, to truth, to integrity, to social justice.[/QUOTE]


I did not get far into that....

But that you mentioned the circulation numbers made me proper chuckle

WTF has the circulation got to do with it?

Thanks to quite a few posters on here - and surely on other forums - the distribution of the Guardian is not reflected in the number of paper copies sold.

Just a simple fact

 

[mcfc1632]

.

You muddied the waters with the anti-scouser irrelevancies. The point of the original research was obvious. It just happened that because of the boycott of the Sun there was a control sample, so it's possible to compare the voting pattern of areas with large / small numbers of Sun readers fed with anti-EU propaganda.

"Intelligent reasoning" was your choice of words. I think yours has let you down.

Fuck - please think before pushing this

Q: are you saying that the reason that the majority of scousers voted Remain - was because they do not read the sun?

Please answer yes or no and if yes - explain why

If no - WTF are you going on about?

 

[bluethrunthru]

I am baffled. I am not sure who is running the country. Is it Farage or is it Trump?

 

[BobKowalski]

I am baffled. I am not sure who is running the country. Is it Farage or is it Trump?

Well Farage is running the Tories and Trump is dictating trade policy and the Rebel Alliance is gearing up to have go at running things next month so who knows. I gather there is chap burbling about big rocks and pork pies who is claiming to be running the country but I don’t think his claim has been verified yet.