Another new Brexit thread

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Dribble said:
You should try understanding my response better. I'll spell it out for you:

The Irish border is the issue.

The backstop was an agreed solution.

You quoted:

"Certainly the EU have no need to find a solution for the backstop - and neither have the UK"

So why would the EU need to find a solution for the backstop, when the backstop was their agreed solution with the UK government for the Irish border question?

I'll sit here patiently whilst you dig up an answer which makes sense.

Also, whilst you're at it, can you explain what your views on the EU were in the early 90s, & why?
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But you said - why should the EU have to find a solution to the backstop

If you tried harder to both read what others post and also take more care in the wording of your own posts it would be better

The mandate is to leave the EU

During the negotiations an issue that has arisen is the question of the border

Albeit a disgusting contrivance that will be used and abused by the EU for purposes way beyond the border issue - May accepted that into a draft treaty

The draft Treaty was not approved and currently has not legal standing

The backstop is not something that needs a solution by either the EU or the UK - which is what I said

As I said - try reading - ideally without pre-disposition
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
well all those moaning bastards should say they will vote for the withdrawal agreement then or releasing a joint statement saying which SPECIFIC bits of the withdrawal agreement need to change and how and release it to the eu and pm so we know what will get through by 31/10 because that’s what we all want.

But it’s much more funny to play politics and say bollox like you will do everything possible to prevent no deal. When there is One thing which is actually easy to do and will achieve their ends.

The hard line erg must be pissing themselves laughing at this tactic .

Even Boris was pragmatic and voted for the withdrawal agreement in the end which meant we would have left with a deal. But no he is the bad guy nutter who wants to leave with no deal.

Remind me again how did jezza, the snp and Lib Dem’s vote? Yet they are the ones saying Boris is a hard line no deal person. HE VOTED FOR LEAVING WITH THE DEAL!
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Then he should present the WA back to the house with the message it is either this or no deal.

And the House will say thanks but no because the ERG Tories and the DUP won’t vote for it and if they won’t why should the opposition bail them out and will instruct Johnson to get an extension which will be granted until we eventually go back to the country in either a GE or a referendum and we will either get a hung Parliament or a narrow vote either way which will resolve nothing.

It’s the eternity Brexit doom cycle where we are forever on the verge of catastrophe but never quite reach it.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
She is vile
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Is this the same Anna Soubry who is such a staunch defender of democracy she not only voted against her constituents wishes to leave the EU. But she then decided to switch her allegiance to a completely new party, the Change party, without resigning and having a by election, having originally been voted in by her constituents as a Tory? You couldn't make this stuff up lol.
 
Johnson has opted for prorogation because it has created a truncated, frenzied and increasingly pot or piss in it political atmosphere. As Parliament scurries to muster opposition to what Johnson has done, it throws the Brexit debate in to even more of a "what side are you on" screaming match.

Once Parliament returns Johnson will cast everything as “don’t let Parliament stop Brexit”, that'll go down well with his core and counter Farage to his right.

He'll then hope to hold an election before 31 October and gamble that his "us against them" (with "them" being the EU and remainer traitors in Parliament) will get him the majority he needs.
 
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BobKowalski said:
It has to come to a head one way or the other. Irrespective of how it turns out (spoiler. Badly) this is self evidently true.

But the arguments will never die. No deal crash out will always be the illegitimate Johnson ‘forced’ Brexit. Every set back, every disruption, every problem will be lain before it. It will create division, protests and movements and the three devolved countries will feed the fire. Leave with a deal and Brexiteers and a fair few Remainers will claim that as an illegitimate Brexit or a bad deal Brexit and every set back, every problem will be lain before it. The fire and divisions will still burn. Stay and every slight or reverse or issue with the EU will be endlessly recycled for the Brexiteers to fret and pick over and the fire will still be burning brightly.

First rule of fires. Don’t start them.

Oh and truthfully I’m not upset by Johnson’s actions. We need to face the reality of Brexit. And if we can’t do it like adults then being forced to do so will suffice. Besides I Iike how an ‘illegitimate Johnson ‘forced’ Brexit’ sounds. It will play well. It has resonance don’t you think?
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A time machine would be great to go back and not call this bloody referendum

However if you are on fire you need to put it out.

This just has to end one way or another it cannot carry on like this. 31/10 has to be that date. I am reasonably confident we will still leave with a deal.

This will be the case even more if Boris exploits today have the desired effect.

It’s currently a matter of uk and eu law that we leave on 31/10 with or without a deal.
 
Ban-jani said:
I don’t disagree with you.

I really don’t know where it takes us next though. The EU are seemingly not budging and the WA won’t and can’t be put forward again.
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Similar to the second referendum on the remainders’ side.

Both sides have proposals that are likely much more reasonable, and much more likely to mitigate the potentially devastating effects of a No Deal Brexit, but none of those proposals are tenable now.

Remainers are the chap on the left and Leavers are the chap on the right in the crow’s nest...



Most of parliament is Billy Zane.
 
SebastianBlue said:
Similar to the second referendum on the remainders’ side.

Both sides have proposals that are likely much more reasonable, and much more likely to mitigate the potentially devastating effects of a No Deal Brexit, but none of those proposals are tenable now.

Remainers are the chap on the left and Leavers are the chap on the right in the crow’s nest...

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Peter Hitchens said a referendum would cause a deep divide and a constitutional crisis if leave won. Considering he’s a leave supporter he was absolutely correct in his assessment.

I really do wish May would have got her deal through now.
 
Ban-jani said:
Peter Hitchens said a referendum would cause a deep divide and a constitutional crisis if leave won. Considering he’s a leave supporter he was absolutely correct in his assessment.

I really do wish May would have got her deal through now.
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I reckon there is still a good chance she will
 
Ban-jani said:
Peter Hitchens said a referendum would cause a deep divide and a constitutional crisis if leave won. Considering he’s a leave supporter he was absolutely correct in his assessment.

I really do wish May would have got her deal through now.
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And we’ve avoided a constitutional crisis by not having it. ;-)
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
A time machine would be great to go back and not call this bloody referendum

However if you are on fire you need to put it out.

This just has to end one way or another it cannot carry on like this. 31/10 has to be that date. I am reasonably confident we will still leave with a deal.

This will be the case even more if Boris exploits today have the desired effect.

It’s currently a matter of uk and eu law that we leave on 31/10 with or without a deal.
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I agree this immediate nonsense can’t carry on. But Brexit will never end. 31st Oct doesn’t end Brexit even with a crash out. We just enter a decade or so of very painful negotiations. Same with exiting with a deal. That was the one thing Cameron did get right if we voted to leave. The prospect of endless EU negotiations. Ah well.
 
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