In fairness to you George, there is some merit in what you post here, but I disagree about your reckoning in weighing the positives against the negatives; and further, you appear to believe that our 'civilising' hand arose broadly from a sense of altruism, whereas it was borne principally from self-interest associated with the twin motivations of control and profit.We should indeed admire the architecture in Manchester etc and around the Commonwealth cities and those of our former Empire as well. Colonization spread rational, Enlightenment culture throughout the world and allowed capital to accumulate in places where it could be applied to advancing art, science, and technology--that humanity as a whole has benefitted from colonization is impossible to deny. You can argue the colonizers sucked their wealth out of the rest of the planet but they also established countries, enabled most of them to prosper and improve life expectancy, living standards, infrastructure, sanitation, education and health. In every respect the British were superior to all the other countries in bringing those benefits to the people they colonized. These positives need to be set against our crimes and I believe outweigh them. That does not exempt us from guilt and nowhere have I suggested it should.
I don't remember getting a vote on maastricht - although I was promised oneYou are quite correct, but there is clearly an expansionist /federalist agenda there couched in a lot of economic euphemism
I am not trying to justify the British involvement in the evil practice of slavery or indeed the rapacious greed and exploitation that characterised both colonial expansion and the similar treatment of our own population. I do maintain that the control and profit drivers you cite were seen as a means to the honourable end of expanding civilization as we understood it and not as ends in themselves.In fairness to you George, there is some merit in what you post here, but I disagree about your reckoning in weighing the positives against the negatives; and further, you appear to believe that our 'civilising' hand arose broadly from a sense of altruism, whereas it was borne principally from self-interest associated with the twin motivations of control and profit.
It would also mean plenty of this...The opinion polls are already making good reading, but Parliament revoking would ensure a Leave majority at the election that would follow.
Yes, mlud, we're guilty but it was worth it.We should indeed admire the architecture in Manchester etc and around the Commonwealth cities and those of our former Empire as well. Colonization spread rational, Enlightenment culture throughout the world and allowed capital to accumulate in places where it could be applied to advancing art, science, and technology--that humanity as a whole has benefitted from colonization is impossible to deny. You can argue the colonizers sucked their wealth out of the rest of the planet but they also established countries, enabled most of them to prosper and improve life expectancy, living standards, infrastructure, sanitation, education and health. In every respect the British were superior to all the other countries in bringing those benefits to the people they colonized. These positives need to be set against our crimes and I believe outweigh them. That does not exempt us from guilt and nowhere have I suggested it should.
Then we have polarised views on human nature.I am not trying to justify the British involvement in the evil practice of slavery or indeed the rapacious greed and exploitation that characterised both colonial expansion and the similar treatment of our own population. I do maintain that the control and profit drivers you cite were seen as a means to the honourable end of expanding civilization as we understood it and not as ends in themselves.
Do people want to be part of a federal superstate? Almost certainly not. So how do you create one given that fact? Don’t give the people a say. Then convince them they can’t leave because their economy will be fucked if they do. Add to that mainstream politicians who are committed to the status quo and you have a political project that can’t be stopped, unless/until the people of a major member state grow some balls and vote to leave.I don't remember getting a vote on maastricht - although I was promised one
Same with Lisbon
Dissatisfaction with EU membership has been strong for decades
Really strangeThey're facing the possibiity of a walkaway. I can't believe that you expect Barnier to say he will negotiate - would that not suggest weakness to your opponent in negotiations?
Without parliament he has no legal way to pass a deal. He's suspended parliament. He has no workable deal.Seriously - I have just answered that in another post and I have explained what to with the border issue a couple of times in recent days - so no (genuine) red lines issue
No point Johnson putting that to parliament whilst barnier is writing in UK papers that he will not negotiate
It has been true foe over 3 years that we will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the possibility of a walk away option and the political will to use it
Current events prove the truth of that
Do people want to be part of a federal superstate? Almost certainly not. So how do you create one given that fact? Don’t give the people a say. Then convince them they can’t leave because their economy will be fucked if they do. Add to that mainstream politicians who are committed to the status quo and you have a political project that can’t be stopped, unless/until the people of a major member state grow some balls and vote to leave.
Two things, 1-the sycophants Blair and Major have already signed away significant powers. 2-why should we stop 27 other countries from creating their state if that’s what they want?Or just stay in & say no.
Much simpler, less divisive & cheaper.
Ah - there it is. The UK being undermined "from within".Really strange
You must know that whilst the EU can simply observe the UK being undermined from within - then he is doing a professional job - as always by saying and writing these things. Turning the screw nicely
Wish he and his team were on our side
The 30 days the EU gave him for coming up with something is halfway through. The implication is that after that the EU goes into full "we'll be ready for No Deal" mode and Johnson has no Parliament to pass any emergency legislation until two weeks before we leave.Without parliament he has no legal way to pass a deal. He's suspended parliament. He has no workable deal.
They don't want.Two things, 1-the sycophants Blair and Major have already signed away significant powers. 2-why should we stop 27 other countries from creating their state if that’s what they want?
I think it’s important that Remainers understand how their actions are being viewed by Leavers. Boris has said, and the vast majority of Leavers agree with him, that we need no deal to be on the table in order to encourage movement from the other side. So what are Remainers busy doing? Trying to tie his hands and removing that leverage from him.Ah - there it is. The UK being undermined "from within".
Yoi know, we've had all the faux outrage from Leavers about pretending you're all being called thick racists, yet implying Remainers are traitors is fair comment.
Two things, 1-the sycophants Blair and Major have already signed away significant powers. 2-why should we stop 27 other countries from creating their state if that’s what they want?
I think it’s important that Remainers understand how their actions are being viewed by Leavers. Boris has said, and the vast majority of Leavers agree with him, that we need no deal to be on the table in order to encourage movement from the other side. So what are Remainers busy doing? Trying to tie his hands and removing that leverage from him.
I have a view that we joined a trading bloc and helped shape it to become a prosperous continent
In decades gone by the ideologues have hijacked that trading bloc and sought to expand it both in scope beyond simply trade and in footprint as it pursues an ever increasing eastwards expansion
The result is that it is on course to be a far from prosperous political union and will go the way of other past empires
We have proven that we are unable to check the trajectory and momentum of the ideologues so we need to exit
Bottom line is that May has been a disaster - looking at the way Boris is handling things now I bet she wishes she had been a bit (lot) more authoritative. I am not a Boris fan - but fuck - he is bringing a lot more focus and decisiveness.