Another new Brexit thread

[west didsblue]

In spite of all the so called drama, today has gone exactly as expected. Brexiter bullshit and total embarrassment for the government, but it doesn’t really matter for them because 90% of the population only listen to sound bites and don’t take into account the slant that their news sources put on the reporting of it all.
What will be more interesting is how Labour respond to Johnson’s election motion. My guess will be that many will abstain and Johnson won’t get his election on the 14th. The question is whether the rebel alliance can force a 2nd ref before they bring in a vote of no confidence at a time of their choosing, and what the government will do if they don’t get their election when they want it. It’s currently going to plan for Johnson in spite of the defeat and embarrassment.
Interesting times. Wish it was back to being boring and we could all get on with just worrying about football rather than worrying about our government deliberately fucking up the country for generations to come just so the sponsors of Brexit can dodge some taxes and make money at the expense of the rest of us.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Just loving the death of the Conservative party.

Who’d have ever thought it?

unfortunately the opinion polls say the exact opposite.

 

[BobKowalski]

So to recap. Govt majority went from +1 to -40 (ish). Johnson lost his first vote as prime minister and claims his non existent Brexit strategy is being wrecked. PM also wants an election but may not be able to get it on his terms. And he's thrown Sir Winston Churchill’s grandson, the Father of the House and two ex Chancellors out of the Conservative Party.

Sweet.

 

[urban genie]

As a Labour supporter for 30 years I couldn't envisage any circumstance where I would vote for Corbyn. Not difficult to understand why half the Labour MP's feel the same.

So you would rather the tories stayed in power?

Corbyn may not be my prefered option as labour leader, but I will vote to get rid of tories first and the labour manifesto as clear priorities.

What fucks me off is the number of people who will believe this is somehow Labour's fault.

As now ex tory MP Guto Bebb has just said on bbc news, Johnson framing it as being the only one commited to leaving having already voted 3 times to stop the deal that would have had us left already, and that he has no intention of getting a deal and lost the trust of the house.

The clown johnson is being called untrustworthy and useless by his own party members who he has kicked out for defying the PM after doing the same throughout brexit.

 

[meltonblue]

If you choose to not understand /missed the points - either deliberately or not that is up to you

I see no ambiguity at all in the clear requirement for the backstop to he removed

It has been made clear - that whilst May's WA is a shit deal for many reasons - removal of the poisonous backstop is the absolute minimum

Not rocket science

And it’s on us to come up with the alternative, particularly considering that requirement was our suggestion to begin with.

 

[urban genie]

Leadsom spouting shite, clueless fucker lying through her teeth.

 

[lancs blue]

unfortunately the opinion polls say the exact opposite.

I seem to recall the opinion polls forecasting May would increase her majority prior to the 2017 GE - that worked out well.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I still can't understand how they didn't whip Tory and DUP MPs into line personally. Each to their own.

Or just talk to them, rather than say "vote or else". Going authoritarian isn't going to work well if they don't trust Johnson.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I seem to recall the opinion polls forecasting May would increase her majority prior to the 2017 GE - that worked out well.

Fraser Nelson on Newsnight desperately defending the Tories saying polls show them in the lead so Tory voters must think they are doing something right..............polls held before tonights defeat and sacking of some of their most prominent figures. Even their buddies in the press can see the writing is on the wall and that the fresh start that was Johnson was praised before they included the corrosive element that is Cummings. Game over.

 

[1.618034]

So to recap. Govt majority went from +1 to -40 (ish). Johnson lost his first vote as prime minister and claims his non existent Brexit strategy is being wrecked. PM also wants an election but may not be able to get it on his terms. And he's thrown Sir Winston Churchill’s grandson, the Father of the House and two ex Chancellors out of the Conservative Party.

Sweet.

Incredible times.

 

[Ric]

unfortunately the opinion polls say the exact opposite.

I think calling this the “death of the Conservative party” is a bit premature and hyperbolic, but it’s possibly the death of the Conservative party as we know it. They’re veering even further to the right than many expected under Johnson.

As for the opinion poll(s) you mention, they’re pretty fluid. I’d be amazed if their popularity doesn’t suffer as a result of what’s happening at the moment. Confidence in Johnson could drop quite quickly. He gave an awful performance in the Commons earlier today.

 

[George Hannah]

Tomorrow should be another diverting day

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I don't think I'd trust any opinion poll right now on how a GE would go. If Prof Curtice gets even close, he should be made PM.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I think calling this the “death of the Conservative party” is a bit premature and hyperbolic, but it’s possibly the death of the Conservative party as we know it. They’re veering even further to the right than many expected under Johnson.

As for the opinion poll(s) you mention, they’re pretty fluid. I’d be amazed if their popularity doesn’t suffer as a result of what’s happening at the moment. Confidence in Johnson could drop quite quickly. He gave an awful performance in the Commons earlier today.

You have to recall all polls were taken before the monumental events of today

 

[aguero93:20]

Cameron did a great job of bringing together the Tories with that referendum.

 

[urban genie]

The wierdness of percentages happened agains the breakdown of the margin tonight was

The ayes 52%
The nays 48%

We simply cannot shake those two numbers when it comes to brexit :-)

 

[west didsblue]

Fraser Nelson on Newsnight desperately defending the Tories saying polls show them in the lead so Tory voters must think they are doing something right..............polls held before tonights defeat and sacking of some of their most prominent figures. Even their buddies in the press can see the writing is on the wall and that the fresh start that was Johnson was praised before they included the corrosive element that is Cummings. Game over.

Don’t think we’re anywhere near game over. For example no-one on here seems to have changed their views about anything, the government spokespeople are still telling the same lies without being properly challenged and I’m guessing the right wing press headlines tomorrow will bear little resemblance to reality. The fact that multiple sources have confirmed that the UK have not come up with anything new at all won’t register with most Brexit supporters but the repeated assertions that parliament have scuppered a great deal will. I’m not too optimistic yet.

Edit: Mail headline is RIP Democracy. The right wing press will definitely change the narrative from reality to fantasy as usual.

 

[Delboy352]

Just been listening to some Labour MP who I’ve never heard of, called Richard Burgon, saying that Labour want a General Election and if they win they will basically go to Brussels and say “Give us your best deal”. Then they will come back and give the people a referendum to either accept the deal, or remain...you really could not make it up...where’s that ballot paper!!!!

 

[meltonblue]

Never would have happened if they’d not decided to prorogue parliament for the sake of four days debate, Cummings really showing he’s a genius so far...

This will keep going as a remain vs leave debate, it hasn’t really been that for a while. It’s all been down to the ineptitude of the conservative government and some of them turning further to the right and creating the split that has caused all of this.

 

[i kne albert davy]

I think calling this the “death of the Conservative party” is a bit premature and hyperbolic, but it’s possibly the death of the Conservative party as we know it. They’re veering even further to the right than many expected under Johnson.

As for the opinion poll(s) you mention, they’re pretty fluid. I’d be amazed if their popularity doesn’t suffer as a result of what’s happening at the moment. Confidence in Johnson could drop quite quickly. He gave an awful performance in the Commons earlier today.

The Conservative Party won't die big business is to involved with it, dreadful state or not it will continue especially while the opposition consists of Jezzer and his motley crew. UGov polls have Tories doing shite on 34% but because the labour party are like rats running round a barrel over brexit some of their vote will defect to the liberals which in my humble opinion will lead to the Tories gaining a working majority.