Another new Brexit thread

[Saddleworth2]

The Tory party & Farage's gangsters, should run for election with a set date, for a no deal Brexit.

Do it sensibly, so they can prepare for a no deal exit on a set date, if they win, let's say a year from now & minimise the damage caused.

If the other parties campaign against a no deal Brexit & win more seats than the Tory/Farage alliance then it's off the table.

And those against it will split their votes between Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, Green and Change. Farage has already said he wont contest a guaranteed 'no deal' campaign from the Tories. It will not solve this issue. We will likely end up with another hung parliament.

 

[Banned Tosspot]

 

[Chris in London]

Completely agree. Then we ask for another bloody extension. The whole thing is just getting ridiculous. If we are to leave the EU a preferred exit option has to be agreed. WE are three years in and still not done. It has to be done through referendum or HOC vote (I would prefer the latter). Once that is defined, stick it in the correct bit of the WA and go to the country for a final confirmatory referendum - rescind A50 or leave and negotiate the future relationship. Run it properly and it could start to heal the divisions.

Well, the numbers would be tight, but what I think it comes down to is this. If the Brexit party do make inroads into safe labour seats, and Tory remain seats choose to vote Tory than remain, Boris throws another billion at the DUP and gets no deal Brexit over the line. Shit outcome, but that’s what the nation voted for. What I think will happen is that Corbyn will become the head of a caretaker administration consisting of labour, SNP, Lib Dem’s and various others (change UK, if any, Green, Plaid Cymru etc) which either gets an extension or revokes A50 with a view to a further referendum on remaining vs leaving. And following that, once the issue has been put to bed, a further general election.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I think it probably would. Remain tories in the south of England will not vote for Corbyn but may well vote Lib Dem. Justine Greening’s constituency in Putney is a prime example - safe Tory seat but with a 70% or so remain vote. Moderate Tory voters there won’t have a moderate Tory to vote for - it will either be a brexiter Tory or a remain Lib Dem. I think that demographic thinks Brexit is too important an issue for them to vote Tory. I suspect also the Tories will be wiped out in Scotland.

By contrast, the Labour leave voters may well vote leave again in a referendum, but in a general election in places like South Wales and Sunderland given the choice between Boris and Corbyn I think they vote Corbyn every time. I don’t see Labour losing many heartland seats to Farage because when push comes to shove in a general election where the government of the day is on the line, I suspect they go for someone they think is on their side on a range of issues, not just on one. The pretence offered by some that immigration wasn’t a key driver in the referendum means the media has been far less apoplectic about that issue, and when you take that away the motivation to desert labour in a general election in my view fades sharply away

I can, in short, see all too easily a scenario where the numbers in Parliament aren’t that different after an election to the current position.

Decent chance of a hung Parliament even if Brexit didn't exist, if the choice is between Boris & Corbyn.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

I fear for the whole country, I have since the rise of neo-liberalism as it is contrary to fairness and equality which I always considered to be an inherent part of British consciousness.

I hope that a few things arise from this whole sorry debacle, such as a written constitution, Proportional Representation, an elected second chamber, a regionalised system of government and more focused local democracy. These things would give a vote a voice. We have a system that is flawed, introducing direct democracy into it has proved to be nothing short of disastrous and its effects have been division and polarisation. As a nation I struggle to think of a time when the nation has been so split on anything since the great Oasis/Blur debate.

There has been no winners from these events, we have all lost whatever our views because the nation is lost and as much as I respect the referendum vote I can not get away from the feeling that it was flawed and damaging, and undertaken for all the wrong reasons. The electorate have been used in a Tory power play, we are their pawns in their struggle for the future direction of our country and under those circumstances can anybody really be described as a winner. They have shredded the confidence of the people in the system in order to remain in power because that is what a party as unprincipled and as power obsessed as the Tory party do, they use the people for their own selfish ends.

For that reason I am delighted that the narcissistic liar got a kicking last night, his desire for power knows no bounds and he would use any means necessary to cement that power because he really believes he was born to be in power. That level of self entitlement is beyond the ken of normal people, we just want to get on and do our best with our lives. If he has to revert to despotism he will, he has that self entitlement and self belief that the nation owes him that right and whoever stands in his way is expendable.

It is a dreadful shame and a stain on our nation that the people have been used in such a fashion, we were promised the earth but should have realised that it was never going to happen because anyone who has witnessed Johnsons machinations over the last 20 years knows it was always about him and if it took a referendum or any other device to deliver him to power he would grasp it with both arms and say I am king, it is my unalienable right and give a huge fuck you to the rest of us.

A very good, and very sad, post .

 

[M18CTID]

Decent chance of a hung Parliament even if Brexit didn't exist, if the choice is between Boris & Corbyn.

Indeed. I'd hang the fucking lot of 'em as things stand!

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

That would certainly make it black and white, and has the same effect of making MPs decide. All those who voted for it the last time around have already shown their colours.

Yep. They need to take ownership now.

 

[BobKowalski]

Yes I would. Parliament is an absolute joke.

Yeah. But on the other hand 21 MPs did vote against their party knowing they would be suspended for doing so because they thought that was the right thing to do for the country. You may not agree with their actions or Parliaments role in this but I’m not sure it can be described as an absolute joke.

 

[Neville Kneville]

And those against it will split their votes between Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, Green and Change. Farage has already said he wont contest a guaranteed 'no deal' campaign from the Tories. It will not solve this issue. We will likely end up with another hung parliament.

But we will have a specific issue actually voted for.

If a majority in Parliament are willing to back no deal, we plan it & do it. If not we rule it out, forever.

Those parties against, can also promise a referendum & if in a majority, do it.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Yeah. But on the other hand 21 MPs did vote against their party knowing they would be suspended for doing so because they thought that was the right thing to do for the country. You may not agree with their actions or Parliaments role in this but I’m not sure it can be described as an absolute joke.

Peoples indignation is born out of the fact that they are appalled by the idea that not everyone wants to sign up for their madcap Brexit at any cost

 

[west didsblue]

As predicted, the right wing media, funded by the sponsors of Brexit, have a different interpretation on yesterdays events far removed from reality. The Express headline is that Parliament have surrendered to the EU and the Mail are running with Corbyn being scared of an election. So fucking predictable.
The Star, of course, never realised it was happening.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Yeah. But on the other hand 21 MPs did vote against their party knowing they would be suspended for doing so because they thought that was the right thing to do for the country. You may not agree with their actions or Parliaments role in this but I’m not sure it can be described as an absolute joke.

It’s funny and most wanted to vote with the govt but listening to some of the interviews this morning where they met Boris to seek assurances that he was making progress with the eu it seemed that Boris could not give them any assurance and actually on assurances on no deal they came out of the meeting thinking bollox this guy really is serious about no deal.

I have to say if that is true I would have done the same.

 

[hammocity]

You cannot bankrupt a country, that was a lie. We didn't have a maxed out credit card either. When you sell off Gold what you do is diversify your countries investment portfolio. Brown chose to take Euro's which increased in value just as Gold increased in value. Gold had fallen by 10% when Brown sold it off, it was likely to fall further at that time so a decision was made to move assets to a different area.

He didnt just sell the gold on Cheetham Hill, pocket the money and go on the piss in town.

Bought other currencies as well but still goes to detract from the fact Labour overspent and were probably relived to be voted out. Because of them the the banks we have had the period of austerity, it’s been tough but not as tough as it would be if that fucking idiot gets in number 10

 

[blueparrot]

Decent chance of a hung Parliament even if Brexit didn't exist, if the choice is between Boris & Corbyn.

Johnson and Corbyn are the result of Brexit. Without Brexit Cameron would have seen off Corbyn and Johnson would be nowhere near being conservative leader.

 

[Neville Kneville]

As predicted, the right wing media, funded by the sponsors of Brexit, have a different interpretation on yesterdays events far removed from reality. The Express headline is that Parliament have surrendered to the EU and the Mail are running with Corbyn being scared of an election. So fucking predictable.

Hardly surprising there are so many deluded, illogical opinions when you read the bullshit these publications are feeding people.

 

[bluethrunthru]

It’s funny and most wanted to vote with the govt but listening to some of the interviews this morning where they met Boris to seek assurances that he was making progress with the eu it seemed that Boris could not give them any assurance and actually on assurances on no deal they came out of the meeting thinking bollox this guy really is serious about no deal.

I have to say if that is true I would have done the same.

what are the effects on house prices? Is Diana implicated in any way and for Star readers.................is she on Love Island and has she got big boobies !!??

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

what are the effects on house prices? Is Diana implicated in any way and for Star readers.................is she on Love Island and has she got big boobies !!??

I think you meant to reply to someone else

 

[hgblue]

It’s funny and most wanted to vote with the govt but listening to some of the interviews this morning where they met Boris to seek assurances that he was making progress with the eu it seemed that Boris could not give them any assurance and actually on assurances on no deal they came out of the meeting thinking bollox this guy really is serious about no deal.

I have to say if that is true I would have done the same.

These people have been undermining Brexit for years, Boris wanted them to vote against his government so he could out them publicly and purge the party of Remainers before calling the election. He's played it perfectly from the perspective of a Leave voter and the election is the final piece of the jigsaw.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Johnson and Corbyn are the result of Brexit. Without Brexit Cameron would have seen off Corbyn and Johnson would be nowhere near being conservative leader.

Johnson & his ilk, are the desired outcome of Brexit, by the people who pay for it & for them. They have their own agenda.

But the point is, Johnson/Corbyn are now the main choice, & irrespective of Brexit, a lot of people don't want either, so voting could be varied.

 

[Metal Biker]

Yeah. But on the other hand 21 MPs did vote against their party knowing they would be suspended for doing so because they thought that was the right thing to do for the country. You may not agree with their actions or Parliaments role in this but I’m not sure it can be described as an absolute joke.

They thought. They've done so out of their own self interests. How do their Conservative constituents, whom they elected to a seat in Parliament, feel about their decision?

Will they be given an opportunity to remove them from the HoC for their actions? What's this; "Opposition parties will not back an election".
They're acting in contrast to how many people feel and want their MP's to act. They are not representing the people, they are representing a minority viewpoint and telling the rest what they should think.