Another new Brexit thread

[Saddleworth2]

I thought the vote was around 7pm.

 

[aguero93:20]

I thought the vote was around 7pm.

It is, the first vote was on whether to send the bill forward for a second reading. Now amendments etc are tabled.

 

[west didsblue]

I'm sure that's your perception, but I simply don't agree. I think EEC / EU membership has always been a divisive issue, and not just for the right. I actually think the referendum result and the split in parliament represents this. I'm sure at times we gave been more pro EU, and even less at others, but this has always been a tricky issue. Brexit as a term probably didn't exist before 2016, but discontent with our net loss/gain from 'Europe' has been an issue since we joined the common market. it has consistently divided all governments, including the Blair govt. Indeed Blair had some real internal strife over the EU until 9/11 focused minds on other issues.

It was always low on most people's list of priorities and was mostly fuelled by the right wing press with their made up political correctness gone mad and straight banana stories, along with their subconscious xenophobia. The referendum was purely a ruse for Cameron to win the 2015 election by attracting UKIP supporters, and it worked.

 

[BlueHammer85]

So just as suspected, not even you know why you want out! You just do because the jack booted, goose-stepping Nazi Nige said so. #Unfuckinbelievable

Like I said, I'm still waiting for one of you to tell me why you want out. You really need to understand what was meant by nazi Nige when he said 'WE want OUR country back'.... I'm sorry to break it to you fella, but the 'WE' & 'OUR' doesn't mean you!

As a remainer I’m finding you seriously tedious - a lot of the posters you’re trying to belittle have stated there positions many many times on this thread - your Nazi references are embarrassing aswell.

 

[BobKowalski]

FT take on meeting with Barnier today.

‘EU27 ambassadors have been briefed on Brexit state of play by Michel Barnier today. Still no ideas on table from Brits over the backstop. Mood towards UK turning glum in Brussels. One participant says it's v clear that EU - UK relations will be v difficult to manage from here. EU27 standing squarely behind Ireland. Any alternatives to backstop have to respect Good Friday Agreement and single market. The latter has been prompted by Boris wish to junk level playing field obligations. One diplomat says LPF is "as big a deal as backstop right now"’

 

[Saddleworth2]

It was always low on most people's list of priorities and was mostly fuelled by the right wing press with their made up political correctness gone mad and straight banana stories, along with their subconscious xenophobia. The referendum was purely a ruse for Cameron to win the 2015 election by attracting UKIP supporters, and it worked.

You are right. There are polls that prove it. Europe wasn’t in the top 10 issues for the general public until Farage and the media started brainwashing the nation.

 

[Len Rum]

During the referendum campaign Leavers were happy to rely on government statements regarding the binding nature of the referendum ( which contradicted the fact that it was strictly advisory only) AND that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market (strictly speaking it doesn't as in the case of Norway).
However when it comes to No Deal a strict interpretation of the referendum result suits their case and they now are happy to ignore statements made by the Leave side both during and post referendum that we would leave with a good deal and that no deal was unthinkable.
The same inconsistent thinking applies to the role of Parliament. Mavis's WA was agreed between the EU and the British Government. Tough according to Leavers - our Parliament rejected it. However when the same Parliament rejects No Deal this is not acceptable to them.
It's all a bit contradictory Jeff.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It was always low on most people's list of priorities and was mostly fuelled by the right wing press with their made up political correctness gone mad and straight banana stories, along with their subconscious xenophobia. The referendum was purely a ruse for Cameron to win the 2015 election by attracting UKIP supporters, and it worked.

I get what you are saying, but all the pc, bent banana stories etc sold papers because they struck a populist chord with people already Ill disposed to the EU - including a lot of very left wing folk who perhaps wrongly blamed the demise of our traditional industries on the EU scapegoat. It's just not correct to paint this as a right vs left issue, even if it makes perfect sense to you as a left leaning remainer. I know this because folk often assume I'm right wing because I want us to leave. Also, if this was a simple right v left argument I don't think our parliament would be in the mess it currently is.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I think that would lead to a return to violence. I would hope to be wrong there but it doesn’t seem a goer until the nationalists have a maj and vote for it as is in the GFA.

It requires a majority North and South.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

You are right. There are polls that prove it. Europe wasn’t in the top 10 issues for the general public until Farage and the media started brainwashing the nation.

You could have an agenda on any binary issue and propel it into the top ten overnight.

 

[BobKowalski]

Ireland to open discussions with the EU on where to situate customs checks for cross border trade in the event of no deal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...stoms-checks-for-cross-border-trade-1.4007674

 

[George Hannah]

Why can't they both be wrong? don't make excuses for him

Just seen this Karen, no excuses. Apparently his theatrical performance impressed 4 Tory waverers sufficiently for them to join the rebels.
Cometh the hour eh, like Boris it was his big day and he wrecked his argument with that foppish stupidity.

 

[BobKowalski]

Ireland to open discussions with the EU on where to situate customs checks for cross border trade in the event of no deal.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...stoms-checks-for-cross-border-trade-1.4007674

Question of course is the Irish Govt are likely to get local support because they can blame ‘the Brits’ (and Johnson is helping enormously with the blame game) but we can’t avoid having customs checks on the other side forever and I can’t see locals there embracing the blitz spirit and making a go of Brexit and helping out.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

So potentially another brexit extension... I don’t see the point. They can’t come to an agreement on anything.

 

[aguero93:20]

So potentially another brexit extension... I don’t see the point. They can’t come to an agreement on anything.

Hence the need to either change the parliamentary arithmetic through a GE or hold a confirmatory referendum. I believe I pointed this out in March and June after both previous extensions.

 

[urban genie]

So potentially another brexit extension... I don’t see the point. They can’t come to an agreement on anything.

Well they can, as seen today there is a majority in favour of stopping a no deal

 

[kaz7]

So boris has put the question out for an election but he hasn't included a date,still playing games,i hope they don't vote for that

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

So boris has put the question out for an election but he hasn't included a date,still playing games,i hope they don't vote for that

https://news.sky.com/story/live-lab...election-today-says-sir-keir-starmer-11801840

Don't think they're going too

 

[kaz7]

https://news.sky.com/story/live-lab...election-today-says-sir-keir-starmer-11801840

Don't think they're going too

Good i think it's a trap

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Well they can, as seen today there is a majority in favour of stopping a no deal

Right but that doesn’t solve brexit, leaving or remaining. It just kicks the can down the road