Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

Your posts are utter drivel. As I've explained, the FoM within the EU is replicated to some extent in numerous regional blocs around the world and is perfectly normal. Why don't you address that point? Maybe because it's easier to deflect and focus on minor irrelevancies.

Answer the question:

Does a citizen of a non-EU nation enjoy the same opportunity to move to the UK as an EU citizen? or is there a level to which EU citizen is recognised and a distinction/differentiation is made?

Remember yes or no

After you have answered it we can debate the implications of the policy

Anyway - I though you were ignoring me/the question - why are you so drawn to me?

 

[Ban-jani]

Nope - you are utterly wrong

Simple question and stop the very obvious squirming and deflection - give a yes or no answer

Does a citizen of a non-EU nation enjoy the same opportunity to move to the UK as an EU citizen? or is there a level to which EU citizen is recognised and a distinction/differentiation is made?

Remember yes or no - I will consider any other answer to just be more deflection

After you can face the truth we can move on to other aspects of the policy

Also, you say:

"Maybe I should just be ignoring this argument as others have said....."

I agree that maybe you should. 'Winning' the point is not really important to me but when I read that post it was clear to me that I had won the point with that poster and, if you reply with more deflection rather than a yes or no, then it is clear to me that I have 'won' the point with you - because you will have been proven yourself not to be able to face up to the truth of matters.

Don't forget I am not talking about the support you may have for the policy - just making the truthful statement that the policy is inherently discriminatory.

You’re honestly the most laughable and hypocritical poster on this forum.

You’re the one deflecting by focusing on your “simple question” that doesn’t reflect how unions all around the world operate.

I’ve already answered it and it’s disingenuous to keep the point to a yes or no answer, because it needs to into detail of how unions and immigration works.

In your fucked up world, nearly every country on earth discriminates on nationality or race grounds.

The EU operates similarly to many unions, including our own.

Before the EU, Europe didn’t have freedom of movement with any country, if the UK leaves the EU it won’t have FoM with other countries.

Several posters have pointed this out to you and have explained why but it just cannot get past your skull.

 

[1.618034]

I don't fancy a second referendum. Not at all

But let's say we revoke tomorrow. What happens to all those MPs and members of the public that still think Brexit is a good idea? How would the EU treat us as they would know that within the next 4 years a Party will be campaigning on Leaving and we could be handing another letter in then round and round we go - we would look even more ridiculous, in my opinion

I'll just tell leavers that they've had 3 years, but they've lost, so get over it.

;-)

 

[mcfc1632]

It's not deflection. Show me where/how the EU blocks FOM from outside the EU. If it doesn't your argument is void.

It is deflection - pure, simple and obvious:

Answer the question:

Does a citizen of a non-EU nation enjoy the same opportunity to move to the UK as an EU citizen? or is there a level to which EU citizen is recognised and a distinction/differentiation is made?

The point I have been making is that the EU rules and policies are inherently discriminatory - not some other point that BobK or yourself want to deflect to

Remember yes or no - anything else is self-evidently deflection

 

[mcfc1632]

I think we would have to agree to differ on how much that particular part of a manifesto influenced people to vote the way they did.

Yep - good idea

I will take comfort that at least I have Blair, Major and Cameron agreeing with my POV

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Answer the question:

Does a citizen of a non-EU nation enjoy the same opportunity to move to the UK as an EU citizen? or is there a level to which EU citizen is recognised and a distinction/differentiation is made?

Remember yes or no

After you have answered it we can debate the implications of this UK government policy that was not dictated by EU.

Anyway - I though you were ignoring me/the question - why are you so drawn to me?

Fixed it for you.

 

[mcfc1632]

That sound you hear? It’s your own logic disappearing up your own arse.

OK, I will add your name to the others that have lost this bit of debating and ran for the sanctuary of their usual modus operandi

 

[cibaman]

I don't fancy a second referendum. Not at all

But let's say we revoke tomorrow. What happens to all those MPs and members of the public that still think Brexit is a good idea? How would the EU treat us as they would know that within the next 4 years a Party will be campaigning on Leaving and we could be handing another letter in then round and round we go - we would look even more ridiculous, in my opinion

Revoking, without having a very clear plan as to what would happen next, would be madness

 

[Ban-jani]

Well spotted

BobK is quite clearly trying to deflect by quoting me as having said something that I most certainly have not

Like you, I am sure, I find that tactic a thoroughly obvious type of deflection

No you’re deflecting as you do on every topic.

Simple question as you like simple things-

Does the UK offer the same immigration and freedom rights to Scottish, Northern Irish and Welsh people, to people from Kenya?

A yes or no answer will do.

 

[Ban-jani]

OK, I will add your name to the others that have lost this bit of debating and ran for the sanctuary of their usual modus operandi

Fucking lol.

I know you can stretch to exaggerating/inventing your occupation but this is brilliant.

 

[mcfc1632]

Brexit has been a clusterfuck from the start and it's only got worse.

At last, Revocation is being talked about as policy and so, from now on, I'm no longer identifying as a "Remainer".

I'm a Revoker, and proud!

STOP BREXIT!

I mean this genuinely!!!!

Really well said - that is clear and honest.

I just wish others were equally as clear and honest and did not try and hide the fact that they simply want the outcome of the referendum to be ignored

 

[Blue Hefner]

Revoking, without having a very clear plan as to what would happen next, would be madness

Is that even possible? What would be the plan, ban the Brexit Party? Ban any anti-EU voices? You cannot plan for future campaigns and election results, surely?

 

[1.618034]

Revoking, without having a very clear plan as to what would happen next, would be madness

A plan for the status quo? That will be a short meeting.

Anyway, isn't that what a GE is for?

The last lot didn't have a plan for change, which is kinda the problem.

STOP BREXIT!

 

[mcfc1632]

Practice what you preach brother. Practice what you preach.

Oh I do and I have been very clear in what I have said - you just want to turn it into something that I have not said.

You can play such games by yourself brother - you do not need my help

 

[west didsblue]

I suggest that you google the meaning of the word 'discriminate'.

If you did you would see that it is undeniably the case that the EU rules and policies on the movement of people discriminate against the citizens from non-EU nation states.

Now I have no problem people supporting that - I do not though understand why they try to argue against what is an utterly simple fact

There must be something about realising that they support policies that inherently discriminate that makes them uncomfortable

Desperate stuff.

Resorting to semantics about the absolute definition of a word rather than the obvious connotations that you are making.

Answer the question:

Does a citizen of a non-EU nation enjoy the same opportunity to move to the UK as an EU citizen? or is there a level to which EU citizen is recognised and a distinction/differentiation is made?

Remember yes or no

After you have answered it we can debate the implications of the policy

Anyway - I though you were ignoring me/the question - why are you so drawn to me?

Why would I answer yes or no to a stupid irrelevant question that is clearly a straw man.

It's absolutely obvious what the answer is and it is a perfectly normal position for any regional multi-nation bloc to hold.

 

[mcfc1632]

I flagged to you that this was nothing to do with the EU - it is a UK only political decision, as far as I am aware. Still waiting for you to prove otherwise?

Your truthful statements are based on a falsehood. Typical of the leave argument - at the core is misinformation and a warped comprehension of a complex topic.

Nope - you are simply dodging

Just answer yes or no to the clear question

We can discuss other things after the deflection has stopped

 

[Rascal]

Possibly. But aren’t we back to this U.K. exceptionalism problem again? This idea we must be the leaders in all things? And if we are not leaders we cannot tolerate being followers and so we must burn everything down rather than accept a lesser role?

Very much mate, instead of using our history and our exceptionalism in a positive manner to influence, after all we were respected as a nation and seen as a nation that was one of the founders of modern democracy we allowed that exceptionalism to become meaning we should stand alone as we know better than you. We know all about shared sovereignty and how to run a state of different nations but didn't trust enough in ourselves to translate that message to the EU. We could have been leaders, I would argue many nations in the EU would have welcomed it as we could have been a counter balance to the Franco-German central core. Instead we did become followers because of the sceptics and that has translated into how many people who voted leave actually see the EU as an enemy. If we had taken that leap and become central influencers then it would have been difficult to paint the EU as the enemy, simply because we would be making an enemy of ourselves.

I really don't think the sceptics ever understood this, they are so entrenched in British exceptionalism any notion of co-operative power sharing became anathema to them, despite it being natural to our own nation. They saw our being part of the EU as subjugation to a foreign power, which is a stretch that bewilders me because its the politics of the SNP and there inference that they are ruled from London and do not want to be part of the Union. It is therefore Nationalism that is behind the scepticism and it has lead to the rise of a particular brand of English Nationalism based on the Little Englander exceptionalism notion. A fully Federated EU may still have harboured those ideas, as the UK still has those who follow that idealism but if British influence had grown then that notion would have decreased in relevance as we would have been central to the EU and not the outsiders looking in. I would not have looked upon it as taking a lesser role because we would have had a greater role in shaping the EU in our own distinct image.

One of the drivers behind the EU was the need to temper the influence of German power as they were largest power and the most central to Europe's future, I believe the Germans themselves for historical reasons would have been very welcoming towards greater British influence in the EU, as would the French for obvious reasons, but we failed to even take notice of this and instead reverted to our outdated notions of Empire/Commonwealth first. The resulting portrayal of the EU as a malignant force in our media has not helped and leave winning was not a surprise because we missed our opportunity to shape the EU and I doubt that opportunity will ever arise again. That's why I believe we now have no choice but to leave, we cant influence anymore because that time has gone and we cant stay because we will be seen as a lesser partner in the project. Its better to be gone and get on with it and hope that one day our influence may be welcomed again, but I seriously doubt it as we have burnt far too many bridges with our child like petulant behaviour and disregard for the other nations of the EU.

 

[mcfc1632]

You’re honestly the most laughable and hypocritical poster on this forum.

You’re the one deflecting by focusing on your “simple question” that doesn’t reflect how unions all around the world operate.

I’ve already answered it and it’s disingenuous to keep the point to a yes or no answer, because it needs to into detail of how unions and immigration works.

In your fucked up world, nearly every country on earth discriminates on nationality or race grounds.

The EU operates similarly to many unions, including our own.

Before the EU, Europe didn’t have freedom of movement with any country, if the UK leaves the EU it won’t have FoM with other countries.

Several posters have pointed this out to you and have explained why but it just cannot get past your skull.

"Remember yes or no - I will consider any other answer to just be more deflection"

I will add your name to those that have been unable to face the truth of their position - crack on

 

[Ban-jani]

Desperate stuff.

Resorting to semantics about the absolute definition of a word rather than the obvious connotations that you are making.


Why would I answer yes or no to a stupid irrelevant question that is clearly a straw man.

It's absolutely obvious what the answer is and it is a perfectly normal position for any regional multi-nation bloc to hold.

Of course multi-national blocs hold these policies the world over, he knows it really but it moves the debate from the leave campaigns actual position, which is that the EU allows too much immigration, to one shifting this none argument about the EU behaving as most, if not all unions do.

 

[mcfc1632]

Fixed it for you.

I will add your name to those that have been unable to face the truth of their position - no problem, you have company