Liverpool thread 2019/20

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paulchapo said:
Your only tricky game is Leicester. The rags are dreadful and Spur's not much better. We absolutely pulverised them but let in two soft goals and missed a load of chances, the game should have finished ,6-2.
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Definitely true that you should have won that game by a country mile - poor finishing and a shit (albeit technically correct) var decision was all that stopped you getting the 3 points your performance deserved.

Aside from Leicester, my fear is that we'll fuck it up against a United team that is dreadful, just like we did last year. I have an irrational fear of playing spurs, which makes little sense given our recent head to head record.
 
Kegler Super said:
I’ve not followed the cases closely but I don’t believe that the UEFA agenda is against City singularly, it’s more towards British clubs as a whole. That said, it shouldn’t be ignored or swept under the carpet. All you can do is try to win matches. Not sure you can blame UEFA for not getting your money back for CSKA, that’s down to the club. You paid them for your tickets surely? It was exceptionally bad luck against Spurs in the CL but the correct decision was made. I’m not a big fan of VAR at all even though decisions have gone for us and against us. Used properly and correctly instead of subjectively and without clear purpose, it’d be great. But the rationale that is used is based on one thing - don’t undermine the referee. Well, if they’ve got it wrong, they need to be undermined. Do it properly or not at all.
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ha ha ha. Come on then, show us Liverpool's sob stories. Spurs',Chelsea's, Rags' ?
 
keith's curle said:
You've made some good points about the CL, and I've had to think about many of them and probably revised my opinion to a small degree. However, you don't seem to be taking on board fully the counter arguments - probably because most are lost in the ranting and bitterness.

Just as a small thing to consider, here's something you said that I don't think you fully appreciate:



It's an invitational showpiece with exclusive access. That's not how I would like to describe what purports to be Europe's top club tournament.
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It’s certainly not exclusive access - anybody can play in it as long as you can qualify. Leicester showed everyone that. If you can compete with the cream of your own country, then you’re good enough to compete with the cream from everywhere else. On the subject of invitations, nobody has ever been invited to play in the tournament - qualifiers only.
 
keith's curle said:
You've made some good points about the CL, and I've had to think about many of them and probably revised my opinion to a small degree. However, you don't seem to be taking on board fully the counter arguments - probably because most are lost in the ranting and bitterness.

Just as a small thing to consider, here's something you said that I don't think you fully appreciate:



It's an invitational showpiece with exclusive access. That's not how I would like to describe what purports to be Europe's top club tournament.
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Out of interest regarding the last point about an invitational showpiece with exclusive access, can I ask what City fans feel about the various proposals that have been floated around regarding super league with certain places being guaranteed for 20 years without fear of relegation? .
 
Kegler Super said:
It’s certainly not exclusive access - anybody can play in it as long as you can qualify. Leicester showed everyone that. If you can compete with the cream of your own country, then you’re good enough to compete with the cream from everywhere else. On the subject of invitations, nobody has ever been invited to play in the tournament - qualifiers only.
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The position you finish in, in your respective league earns you that invitation. It's not a given though.
 
Start2finish said:
Out of interest regarding the last point about an invitational showpiece with exclusive access, can I ask what City fans feel about the various proposals that have been floated around regarding super league with certain places being guaranteed for 20 years without fear of relegation? Speaking as a Red whose team (as well as City) were talked about as being one of these guaranteed clubs, I think its a horrendous idea, but I'm curious whether any City fans were in favour? I'm not implying anything in either direction.
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Maybe you should've given your opinion later, then.
 
Kegler Super said:
It’s certainly not exclusive access - anybody can play in it as long as you can qualify. Leicester showed everyone that. If you can compete with the cream of your own country, then you’re good enough to compete with the cream from everywhere else. On the subject of invitations, nobody has ever been invited to play in the tournament - qualifiers only.
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Technically correct but there is a sense of exclusivity when the 4th or 5th place team in England is ranked the same as a champion from another country
 
prestonibbo_mcfc said:
ha ha ha. Come on then, show us Liverpool's sob stories. Spurs',Chelsea's, Rags' ?
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British clubs are never ever getting the benefit of the doubt at UEFA. This has been going on for time immemorial.
My point here would be that I don’t understand why it would be a big deal. Nothing UEFA have said or done have impacted you on the actual field of play, it’s just general sniping at the clubs. They don’t like us and never have. That the English teams are smashing the CL at the moment will be killing them. But if we look at the draw for the CL groups, neither of us have done too badly. Swings and roundabouts.
 
Start2finish said:
Technically correct but there is a sense of exclusivity when the 4th or 5th place team in England is ranked the same as a champion from another country
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They’re not ranked the same, that’s why they have different pots and a title winner can be in pot 3 or 4.
 
prestonibbo_mcfc said:
The position you finish in, in your respective league earns you that invitation. It's not a given though.
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I think there’s a tangible difference in the words qualifier and invitation but let’s not split hairs. As it stands though, you’re in a great position in the CL this year, keep your fingers crossed.
 
Kegler Super said:
I think there’s a tangible difference in the words qualifier and invitation but let’s not split hairs. As it stands though, you’re in a great position in the CL this year, keep your fingers crossed.
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I'm not trying to be funny or anything like that, but UEFA class it as an invitation only competition.
Like some exclusive club.
 
It'd be nice to win the Champions League, but it's not something you can really plan for in the same way that you can with the Premier League. So many teams have failed to win the Champions League despite obviously being the best team around at the time, and so many other teams have won it when they demonstrably weren't the best. The Chelsea of the mid-2000s never won it, but then they won it when they had a pretty average team and a manager who a few years later was getting sacked by Aston Villa in the Championship. The reality of a cup competition is that it relies on a hell of a lot on luck, especially in the latter stage when you're always going to be facing teams that are capable of beating you on their day. A few dodgy decisions, a few injuries, or just an off day can lose the whole tournament for you. It's much harder for that to happen in the league.

Chelsea fans would probably point to decisions that stopped their Mourinho team from winning it, but would probably also concede that they had a bit of luck when they finally won it.
 
prestonibbo_mcfc said:
I'm not trying to be funny or anything like that, but UEFA class it as an invitation only competition.
Like some exclusive club.
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Of which you’re now a member by your own logic. Achieved by competing with (and in this case triumphing over) the best teams in your league over a number of years. Doesn’t matter which way we look at it, them’s the facts.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
It'd be nice to win the Champions League, but it's not something you can really plan for in the same way that you can with the Premier League. So many teams have failed to win the Champions League despite obviously being the best team around at the time, and so many other teams have won it when they demonstrably weren't the best. The Chelsea of the mid-2000s never won it, but then they won it when they had a pretty average team and a manager who a few years later was getting sacked by Aston Villa in the Championship. The reality of a cup competition is that it relies on a hell of a lot on luck, especially in the latter stage when you're always going to be facing teams that are capable of beating you on their day. A few dodgy decisions, a few injuries, or just an off day can lose the whole tournament for you. It's much harder for that to happen in the league.
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Very hard to argue that a team wins the league but wasn't the best team. Easy to argue for cup winners - would apply to half the CL winners.
 
Kegler Super said:
Any major team would suffer terribly with 2 key long term injuries. Hardly anybody else in the world has your squad depth. We don’t have the same financial resources as you so have to box cleverer in that area. So to use that as a stick to beat us with is daft and does nothing to advance the discussion.
As I’ve said numerous times above, it’s only your fans who show this disdain and regard for the Champions League. I posted this a few pages back but I’ll post it again - what your manager and club think of the CL and how much they want to win it.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....ester-city-still-not-ready-win-champions/amp/
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“Same financial Resources”? Didnt your club make make 113m net profit last financial year?! Dont fall for the media narrative use you intellect.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
It'd be nice to win the Champions League, but it's not something you can really plan for in the same way that you can with the Premier League. So many teams have failed to win the Champions League despite obviously being the best team around at the time, and so many other teams have won it when they demonstrably weren't the best. The Chelsea of the mid-2000s never won it, but then they won it when they had a pretty average team and a manager who a few years later was getting sacked by Aston Villa in the Championship. The reality of a cup competition is that it relies on a hell of a lot on luck, especially in the latter stage when you're always going to be facing teams that are capable of beating you on their day. A few dodgy decisions, a few injuries, or just an off day can lose the whole tournament for you. It's much harder for that to happen in the league.
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Of course you can plan for the CL, every elite club in Europe has it and their domestic title at the heart of their strategy. You need some luck but you need that in a league too. More luck again because there are more games to be played there. Sometimes the best teams don’t win the CL for any number of reasons; injuries, bad luck, player mishaps etc. Football isn’t linear, it’s a mish mash of things thrown together at the same time. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.
 
Kegler Super said:
Have you actually been involved in or watched many finals? Do you think that all of hen are frenetic, mega skilled masterpieces? The reality is that most are complete non events. We won our 2nd EC against Bruges at Wembley, one boring game indeed. It’s not all sunshine and roses, it’s doing what needs to be done at the right time.
The fact of the matter is that your myopic view of the CL isn’t likely to change anytime soon so best to leave it there. Don’t know why you don’t embrace it - I don’t know one fan of any other team that competes in it that acts like most of you lot. Each to his own though.
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You may be aware I’ve enjoyed watching many finals recently all at Wembley and yes I was there at them all. Most were decent games but we always tend to do well at Wembley. Again you are avoiding the issue you raised though about players only wanting to win the champions league. That’s just blatantly not the case. And you assume I don’t care about the CL, that’s not true either as I recognise to be regarded in the media at least as ‘great’ adding that trophy is important. BUT the league is a truer test of greatness as you well know, it’s harder to win and luck plays a far smaller role. Still you carry on telling yourself that the real glory is found in the CL.
 
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