Just daft deflection from the point I was making - carry-on
Hence my commentWhat a bizarre comment. Momentum have no influence??? I can't believe you just wrote that. The next leader will be voted in by the party members, and the party is riddled with Momentum supporters and indeed organisers, and you think that will influence nobody? We're talking about an organisation which has been on a witch hunt to even deselect MPs who are not "true believers" and yet in this most important of all decisions - who should be the next Labour leader - they will have "no influence"? I don't think you thought that through mate.
How do you do that? Type sneer and pat your own back simultaneously, not to mention impersonating (badly) 'rumphole' of the bailey. Strange and unusual....indeedYep - I am consistent, calm and think things through rather than spout
These indeed do appear to be strange attributes on this thread
Or slightly over half the size of NI itself!The Tory proposal of extending the Northern Ireland border (310 miles) and making it 10 miles wide would make a border area of 3100 square miles
twice the size of Luxembourg................
Lions led by Donkeys
Irony alert.Not sure why you were surprised at the number of alerts
The count is entirely driven by the number of extreme and batshit-crazy posts you make
Act more moderately and less outright argumentative and insulting - receive less alerts - simples
Oi! I am a hard left loony and I cancelled my Momentum membership.
The next leader will be the democratic choice of the membership and whoever that is will have my full support just as Blair did despite our obvious differences.
Corbyn I expect will fight the election, then if he wins power he will stand aside after a couple of years, if he loses he will stand aside immediately and in those circumstances I hope my wing of the party elects somebody on the left of the party as I don't want these years of opposition and fighting to change the party to go wasted as we return to the Blairite right, although I could just about accept Lisa Nandy, I would prefer Rebecca Long-Bailey with Andrew Gwynne as Deputy.
So in a room where more than 1 in 12 are Momentum supporters and they shout the loudest, they will have no influence? I'd be more than surprised.
If you are right, then there is a small ray of hope for the Labour Party since they could once again be a party with a realistic chance of governing with a majority if they got rid of the hard-left loonies who have a stranglehold on the party, elected a moderate leader and dramatically changed course to pursue a less controversial agenda. Personally I think there is no chance of that any time soon.
I’ll concede that’s an argument that isn’t totally without merit, however it fails to take into account the huge imbalances in power between the UK and the ROI (as well as England and Scotland, although that’s a separate argument).Seems that the majority of English people looking after their best interests is a shameful act
Yet Irish or Scottish nationalism is something to be admired
What do you think will happen should Labour not win a majority but are in a position to govern with SNP or Liberal support. Assuming both those would probably insist on a different Labour PM.
Great post. We leave, but we do so with as little disruption as possible to the current working fabric, at least until we're in a stronger position to cut those "strings" which the hard leavers insist we can free ourselves from, and that's if we even feel we need to.Half of your post strayed off into the flogged to death debate about why leaving the EU is a bad idea. I agree with you, it's a bad idea. Others disagree.
But that is not the debate. The (very) unfortunate fact is that the great British public, for whatever reason, daft or otherwise, voted for it. You and I may wish that was not the case, but that doesn't change the fact that they did.
And that being the case, it puts the two options of (a) leaving the EU and (b) not bothering to, on completely different footings. You cannot say both options are equal, least of all in terms of the disharmony and divisions they will cause if enacted. Leaving the EU - however that is implemented - has the mandate of the British people. Staying in, does not. Leaving the EU is accepted by most people as the right course given most peoples' respect for a democratic referendum result. No such parity exists for the "cancel Brexit" option. No Leavers will back "cancel Brexit" on the basis that it was mandated in a 2016 Referendum result, because it wasn't. They will NEVER accept Leave being cancelled, irrespective of if/how the 2016 result is overturned.
Therefore any course of action which does not include us leaving the EU is dead set for angry protest, disruption and strangling of other political debate, for years and years. Maybe decades of more of this. We cannot go on like this.
I’d like Yvette Cooper.
So?I've gone for the full combination of bold, italics and underline here out of respect for the ridiculousness of this comment. Bravo sir. The history of the island of Ireland is the reason this issue is weaponised, not the EU. Furthermore, it is not the EU who is trying to change things that are potentially going to break the peace agreement, it is the UK. And if you didn't understand there would be an issue with the border then that just shows you're a bit clueless.
As will the recriminations from those who most stridently wished to remain. This is the most likely outcome of leaving imo and it will be ugly should I be correct on that point. Freezing pensions, for example, would meet with much less resistance than hitherto if it all goes south, as the young may blame the old for an economically malign Brexit. If it goes relatively well, then the divisions will remain but possibly recede over tine, but if it goes badly it will be an absolute fucking disaster for national cohesion.Yep. You're dead right. If we do leave the EU and start falling further and further behind the EU members, and people are losing their jobs and houses, the anger and resentment will rise, not fall.
I actually don't mind her, but she flounced off in a huff and the PLP do not reflect the membership, I would respect her if she was elected leader of course but I wouldn't vote for her and I cant see the membership voting for her either.
If Labour won the election and she was offered a top job and took it that may change.
That is the nub of the issue. No-one has come up with anything even remotely plausible that addresses the border without requiring the backstop and maintains the United Kingdom as a single entity with one set of rules, other than a customs union with the EU. The chances that this government led by the buffoon-in-chief is going to come up with something realistic in the next few days that a majority can work with whilst keeping his backers on board is infinitesimal.Right then, describe to me, the 'workable deal' involving the Irish border, which the ERG are going to back, which is about to be presented to Parliament.
Unless we are just talking fantasy shite for the sake of it, in which case perhaps intergalactic war will break out & the whole thing be postponed.
Please describe the 'workable deal' the ERG will back. 'Workable' remember, as opposed to 'unworkable'.
This broadly echoes my perspective, albeit with huge reluctance. We’ve got to leave imo, but to do so will carry huge risks for national cohesion if it goes wrong, which is why a hard Brexit needs to be robustly resisted.Half of your post strayed off into the flogged to death debate about why leaving the EU is a bad idea. I agree with you, it's a bad idea. Others disagree.
But that is not the debate. The (very) unfortunate fact is that the great British public, for whatever reason, daft or otherwise, voted for it. You and I may wish that was not the case, but that doesn't change the fact that they did.
And that being the case, it puts the two options of (a) leaving the EU and (b) not bothering to, on completely different footings. You cannot say both options are equal, least of all in terms of the disharmony and divisions they will cause if enacted. Leaving the EU - however that is implemented - has the mandate of the British people. Staying in, does not. Leaving the EU is accepted by most people as the right course given most peoples' respect for a democratic referendum result. No such parity exists for the "cancel Brexit" option. No Leavers will back "cancel Brexit" on the basis that it was mandated in a 2016 Referendum result, because it wasn't. They will NEVER accept Leave being cancelled, irrespective of if/how the 2016 result is overturned.
Therefore any course of action which does not include us leaving the EU is dead set for angry protest, disruption and strangling of other political debate, for years and years. Maybe decades of more of this. We cannot go on like this.
The EU are looking after one of their own members, as is their right. The UK government are the ones trying to rip up existing agreements that were put in place to stop, you know, people killing each other. Out of interest, do you consider the US Congress to be weaponising this issue when Nancy Pelosi said that congress will not agree to any new trade deal with the UK if the GFA is not respected? The only weapon here is you mate.So?
It follows that the EU should have shown more respect for the situation and not deliberately weaponised the border issue - which they most certainly have done
No amount of denial of the truth can change it
And as for your childish insults - well they just make you appear probably as clever as you really are
As will the recriminations from those who most stridently wished to remain. This is the most likely outcome of leaving imo and it will be ugly should I be correct on that point. Freezing pensions, for example, would meet with much less resistance than hitherto if it all goes south, as the young may blame the old for an economically malign Brexit. If it goes relatively well, then the divisions will remain but possibly recede over tine, but if it goes badly it will be an absolute fucking disaster for national cohesion.
What a fucking gamble to take.
As we say round these parts ... yer what?That's my point exactly, mate. I'm mad as fire already at the charlatans who've lied their way to Brexit, and I'm utterly frustrated at those who they've conned. But if it does happen, and it's still a big if in my opinion, then the "told you so" resentment from those of us who could see it for what it was will be unlike anything this country has ever seen.
Leavers love to threaten riots, and their threats have currency because the type of person who riots is usually a Brexiteer. But riots aren't really the biggest problem: they'll be over in a week. The young are going to turn against the old if we do leave the EU because of the suffering which we will all feel. And I'll be on their side.
Yay! Well done.Take comfort in any way you want
Also - I did answer it - my words were clear and the consequences of them obvious. I have also said many times that had the EU not opted for weaponising the border issue then the Irish and UK would have found ways to deal with the border challenges without drama and yes the GFA would have been subject to changes