Another new Brexit thread

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I've heard some crazy stuff and but this takes some beating and begs the question do these people have shit for brains ? I mean WTF!!

Secret proposals presented to Brussels suggested building vast “customs processing centres” along the frontier as a replacement for the Brexit backstop. Irish public broadcaster RTE reports that the plan was included in “non-papers” presented to Commission negotiators.

This is staggering stupid https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-ireland-irish-border-plan-deal-a9127421.html

As you can probably imagine those from the South are not to happy with this, is this really the best that we have got?
It's as though Johnson has sat down and said fuck Ireland fuck the Good Friday Agreement let's get Brexit done!!
 
Didsbury Dave said:
That's my point exactly, mate. I'm mad as fire already at the charlatans who've lied their way to Brexit, and I'm utterly frustrated at those who they've conned. But if it does happen, and it's still a big if in my opinion, then the "told you so" resentment from those of us who could see it for what it was will be unlike anything this country has ever seen.

Leavers love to threaten riots, and their threats have currency because the type of person who riots is usually a Brexiteer. But riots aren't really the biggest problem: they'll be over in a week. The young are going to turn against the old if we do leave the EU because of the suffering which we will all feel. And I'll be on their side.
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I’ve said it before, the referendum has unleashed forces that cannot be contained.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Yay! Well done.

And how long do you think negotiating changes to the GFA was going to take.
And just when were the UK government going to mention that possibility to anyone over here.
I think you greatly underestimate the mood over here.
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Well, that's because he/they don't care, mate.

Ireland and the Irish are just pawns in the game.
 
We have to leave or the #real brexits will trash the country going by tbe rallies they would have ttouble trashing a phone box
Bluster threats and bollox,
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
This broadly echoes my perspective, albeit with huge reluctance. We’ve got to leave imo, but to do so will carry huge risks for national cohesion if it goes wrong, which is why a hard Brexit needs to be robustly resisted.
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The UK Right has pushed so hard to shift and redefine what Brexit means it has destroyed any path to a consensus which will accept Brexit's long term legitimacy.

Also we had our Brexit turning point in March when we refused to ratify the one path to leaving the EU and agreeing to an extension. Once we failed to take that path and accepted staying in the EU was preferable it’s now a long slog back to where we were prior to the referendum.

All we have left is vacuous slogans like ‘Get Brexit Done’ with no hint of irony and spurious NI border proposals that no rational Govt would entertain let alone send to other Govts for them to wipe their arses with.

Im beyond even bothering to listen to what the Govt says anymore.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
This broadly echoes my perspective, albeit with huge reluctance. We’ve got to leave imo, but to do so will carry huge risks for national cohesion if it goes wrong, which is why a hard Brexit needs to be robustly resisted.
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There's simply no chance of us having a soft brexit with the current crop in charge.
A soft brexit would require a EFTA/EEA relationship with the EU which requires things such as:
* Freedom of movement
* European court of justice jurisdiction (to stay in the EEA)
* Financial contributions to the EU
* No regulatory autonomy from the EU


This isn't going to happen in a month of Sundays under the Conservatives or the Lib Dems
 
BobKowalski said:
The UK Right has pushed so hard to shift and redefine what Brexit means it has destroyed any path to a consensus which will accept Brexit's long term legitimacy.

Also we had our Brexit turning point in March when we refused to ratify the one path to leaving the EU and agreeing to an extension. Once we failed to take that path and accepted staying in the EU was preferable it’s now a long slog back to where we were prior to the referendum.

All we have left is vacuous slogans like ‘Get Brexit Done’ with no hint of irony and spurious NI border proposals that no rational Govt would entertain let alone send to other Govts for them to wipe their arses with.

Im beyond even bothering to listen to what the Govt says anymore.
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There is no doubt that the utter selfishness of the militant Brexiteers has reduced, not enhanced the prospects of leaving the EU, and has accentuated the ongoing divisions in our society.

What I simply don’t get is people blaming the failure of May’s deal on remainers, when it was manifestly the ERG that blocked it. That’s the simple application of mathematics.
 
aguerrrroooooooooooo said:
There's simply no chance of us having a soft brexit with the current crop in charge.
A soft brexit would require a EFTA/EEA relationship with the EU which requires things such as:
* Freedom of movement
* European court of justice jurisdiction (to stay in the EEA)
* Financial contributions to the EU
* No regulatory autonomy from the EU


This isn't going to happen in a month of Sundays under the Conservatives or the Lib Dems
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That may be correct, but it doesn’t alter my firm view that it is the only workable and sustainable way out of this complete fucking abortion.
 
bellbuzzer said:
We have to leave or the #real brexits will trash the country going by tbe rallies they would have ttouble trashing a phone box
Bluster threats and bollox,
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Exactly. You'll get some protests possibly, some sporadic violence from Robinson's lot and a lot of strongly worded letters to The Times and Daily Mail.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
This broadly echoes my perspective, albeit with huge reluctance. We’ve got to leave imo, but to do so will carry huge risks for national cohesion if it goes wrong, which is why a hard Brexit needs to be robustly resisted.
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I don’t agree. Social cohesion is fucked either way. It makes more sense to follow the course that is least damaging economically.
 
mcfc1632 said:
So?

It follows that the EU should have shown more respect for the situation and not deliberately weaponised the border issue - which they most certainly have done

No amount of denial of the truth can change it.

And as for your childish insults - well they just make you appear probably as clever as you really are
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There was no weaponising until the DUP decided to make it so.
They threw a spanner into the works of something that had the potential to succeed, if compromises were made with a few red lines.
They would like nothing more than to renegotiate the GFA which they never agreed to.
This of course is something that you have mentioned would be part of your plan also.

There is a lot of sub plots going on @mcfc1632 but one man's version of the truth doesn't match everyone else's.
 
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Chris in London said:
I don’t agree. Social cohesion is fucked either way. It makes more sense to follow the course that is least damaging economically.
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That doesn’t have to be the case. If we can leave in a manner that minimises the economic damage to ‘acceptable’ levels then social cohesion can be broadly maintained, especially as the option of rejoining at a future date, in circumstances that aren’t rooted in national humiliation, will be a realistic possibility - should the public wish it.
 
Chris in London said:
I don’t agree. Social cohesion is fucked either way. It makes more sense to follow the course that is least damaging economically.
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Had this conversation with my missus last night, and she said the same as you and had to agree. I was being all pragmatic, there should be a compromise etc. but these dickheads threatening civil disturbances if they don't get their own way won't give a shit between soft brexit and remain. So it's either no deal or Doncaster gets smashed to pieces.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
That doesn’t have to be the case. If we can leave in a manner that minimises the economic damage to ‘acceptable’ levels then social cohesion can be broadly maintained, especially as the option of rejoining at a future date, in circumstances that aren’t rooted in national humiliation, will be a realistic possibility - should the public wish it.
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Again, I don’t agree mate. If we leave, especially without a second public vote, millions and millions of people will take the view that as a result of a dishonest campaign run by a bunch of spies and chancers, we have made ourselves worse off as a nation. When the inevitable tales emerge of vast sums made by hedge fund managers who have shorted the pound, that sense of having been swindled will increase. A soft Brexit merely reduces the economic damage
 
Ban-jani said:
It’d depend who she was up against but the current membership seem to be more left wing than her politics.

I just like her a lot.
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The membership I think is defo further to the left than Yvette and probably 80% of the PLP
 
Chris in London said:
Again, I don’t agree mate. If we leave, especially without a second public vote, millions and millions of people will take the view that as a result of a dishonest campaign run by a bunch of spies and chancers, we have made ourselves worse off as a nation. When the inevitable tales emerge of vast sums made by hedge fund managers who have shorted the pound, that sense of having been swindled will increase. A soft Brexit merely reduces the economic damage
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Conversely, if we don’t leave, for around half the population, the sense of being swindled will be just as palpable.
 
aguerrrroooooooooooo said:
There's simply no chance of us having a soft brexit with the current crop in charge.
A soft brexit would require a EFTA/EEA relationship with the EU which requires things such as:
* Freedom of movement
* European court of justice jurisdiction (to stay in the EEA)
* Financial contributions to the EU
* No regulatory autonomy from the EU


This isn't going to happen in a month of Sundays under the Conservatives or the Lib Dems
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Or the majority of leavers who only voted leave because of immigration
 
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