Another new Brexit thread

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gordondaviesmoustache said:
Conversely, if we don’t leave, for around half the population, the sense of being swindled will be just as palpable.
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Not after a second referendum with the facts on the table.

The yob-politics Brexiteers, the Tommy Robinson /Kate Hopkins types, will riot for a week and it will be largely over.

In any case, we can just tell them repeatedly "We won you lost" and "suck it up Buttercup" and that should sort it ;-)
 
Imho it depends a lot on the narrative of the right wing media post brexit and wether they will argue that "Brexit was stolen" from them trough undemocratic means. If the right wing media believes it perhaps it will promote that view as a way for the right to gain votes but in the meantime it might also raise the perception among a certain part of the poppulation that "they can't get what they want trough democratic means".

There are always a bunch of right wingers so much on the extreme side that they might get into murder when the circumstances seem ripe for it, perhaps even political murder, guess it works both ways aswell. Question is what might trigger such people? And lets be fair, the UK won't sink in the ocean if the rate of murder/political murder increases but ...
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I would say that broadly half the population want to leave, so my point remains.
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It's not acceptible for some on here to consider the possibility that those who voted remain in the referendum, back leaving on the premise that they respected the result an wish to uphold democracy.

Some remainers have become soft brexiters, and some leavers have become soft brexiters too. No hard leaver/soft leaver agrees with the FBPE remainer types.
 
Vic said:
Like getting blood out of a stone.

If I'd misunderstood what you'd said you would have called me a "twister". If I ask you to clarify and you say "I was clear" you call that an answer.

So, in your view there is no solution to the border question which does not mean altering an international peace treaty with the risks that entails. So long as we know. When did the people of NI consent to this?
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I just don't have time or interest in playing the silly games that seem to be your recent style - as I say you have become just another WDB or BJ for me

But I will give you an answer - that you will contest - N.I. took part in a UK wide referendum with regard to the membership of the EU.

The outcome of that referendum was clear and the UK parliament committed to implementing the result. If so doing requires changes to existing treaties then so be it - simples.
 
Rascal said:
Oi! I am a hard left loony and I cancelled my Momentum membership.

The next leader will be the democratic choice of the membership and whoever that is will have my full support just as Blair did despite our obvious differences.

Corbyn I expect will fight the election, then if he wins power he will stand aside after a couple of years, if he loses he will stand aside immediately and in those circumstances I hope my wing of the party elects somebody on the left of the party as I don't want these years of opposition and fighting to change the party to go wasted as we return to the Blairite right, although I could just about accept Lisa Nandy, I would prefer Rebecca Long-Bailey with Andrew Gwynne as Deputy.
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But you do remember that Momentum directly sought to remove Watson. Their purpose was the need to consider who will replace Corbyn - especially should Labour lose the upcoming GE.

The compromise is that someone of the 'right attitudes' is going to become 'joint Deputy Leader' - so then that person can be selected and the risk that a more moderate figure such as Watson taking over is removed.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
That doesn’t have to be the case. If we can leave in a manner that minimises the economic damage to ‘acceptable’ levels then social cohesion can be broadly maintained, especially as the option of rejoining at a future date, in circumstances that aren’t rooted in national humiliation, will be a realistic possibility - should the public wish it.
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Nah, gone means gone.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
There is no doubt that the utter selfishness of the militant Brexiteers has reduced, not enhanced the prospects of leaving the EU, and has accentuated the ongoing divisions in our society.

What I simply don’t get is people blaming the failure of May’s deal on remainers, when it was manifestly the ERG that blocked it. That’s the simple application of mathematics.
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True but with a caveat.
Brexit is a Tory project.
ERG is a group within the Tories. They blocked their own PM's deal. She in turn failed to persuade them.
The primary responsibility for the failure of that deal lies with the Tories, they caused Brexit but couldn't deliver it themselves.
However, notwithstanding the fact that Mavis failed to bring the opposition parties along with her and generally pissed them off, Labour could have voted for Mavis's deal " in the national interest" particularly as it included some things they agreed with ( protecting the GFA ad a " customs union"), @kevin horlocks wand has referred to this previously
So IMHO while the Tories and their ERG members in particular have the primary responsibility for bringing us to this crisis point, Labour have played a secondary role in bringing it about.
 
Ban-jani said:
The fact that you think that putting into place measures that will make up for our trade losses, after no deal, isn’t preparation we need to talk about and is “daft deflection”, just shows what a total and utter ignoramus you are.

It’s the fucking main thing we should be talking about, alongside making sure we’ve got sufficient medicine and food backed up if our borders grind to a halt the next day.
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You are just doing your usual bollocks as you deflect away from the point(s) that were being made.

You may want to disappear up your own arse - that journey holds no interest for me - crack on.
 
bellbuzzer said:
How do you do that? Type sneer and pat your own back simultaneously, not to mention impersonating (badly) 'rumphole' of the bailey. Strange and unusual....indeed
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Hey mate - I am a novice compared to you

If you have a read of your own posts you will likely to be moved to wonder - just WTF - as well
 
Chris in London said:
I don’t agree. Social cohesion is fucked either way. It makes more sense to follow the course that is least damaging economically.
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It might be the least economically damaging in the short term. But the the subsequent General Election would be hugely divisive, with the possibility of the election of a Tory government with an even harder line on a “clean brexit”. I would prefer to take a very soft Brexit now, than risk that harder Brexit after the next election, together with the social divisions in the meantime.
 
cibaman said:
It might be the least economically damaging in the short term. But the the subsequent General Election would be hugely divisive, with the possibility of the election of a Tory government with an even harder line on a “clean brexit”. I would prefer to take a very soft Brexit now, than risk that harder Brexit after the next election, together with the social divisions in the meantime.
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I suspect that has been Johnson's/cummings' plan all along: frighten everybody to death with threats of a No Deal Brexit, so that a soft Brexit seems the only way out. Judging by some on here, it's working, too.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Absolutely correct

The difference is that I am honest about that and don't try and hide my true feelings on the subject
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Just so odd.

No-one I know who wants a referendum wants it for any other reason than giving the great British public a chance to change their mind (and give a million new voters a say in their future instead of the votes of the dead).

Don't imply there's some dishonesty involved.

PS I don't know Corbyn. But he may be smarter than I think his stance is.
 
mcfc1632 said:
You are just doing your usual bollocks as you deflect away from the point(s) that were being made.

You may want to disappear up your own arse - that journey holds no interest for me - crack on.
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Simple question, I know you like these, yes or no will do-

Do you think trying to make up for the trade we’re going to lose through no deal should be a priority in our preparations?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I’ll concede that’s an argument that isn’t totally without merit, however it fails to take into account the huge imbalances in power between the UK and the ROI (as well as England and Scotland, although that’s a separate argument).

I expect a united Ireland would economically benefit England, long term; however the UK leaving the EU would almost certainly significantly damage the ROI, something which is never mentioned or even discussed by proponents of Brexit as an unfortunate side-effect of the process.

Therefore, an act of putative national self-interest that renders our closest friends and neighbours to be worse off, given their reliance upon our engagement with Europe, is distinguishable from an act that will most likely be of benefit to England, economically at least - and is therefore something to be ashamed of.

Selfishness only really counts when your selfish act impacts negatively upon others, especially if you’re all too aware of any such likely impact.
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Good post that - stands out as being free of the bile and argumentative shite that has been the standard fayre recently

Couple of points I will come back to later
 
John McDonald just said that no confidence vote unlikely before the EU council meeting on the 17th October.

Hope the opposition know what they are doing.
 
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