Another new Brexit thread

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mancity2012_eamo said:
Yeah, what a palava!
What are they like up north.

With respect, the Irish Sea option is a backstop solution, to the Brexit problem.
A vote on this issue is not an alternative or a logical next step in the evolution of the GFA. Since you earlier used the expression 'explosive' in talking about NI, intentionally I'd guess, let me say that forcing a referendum on Irish Unity which is what you seem to be suggesting as part of a Brexit, is akin to putting a gun against the heads of the NI people and asking, do you want to come with us in the UK or go with Ireland in the EU.
They've already said they would like to remain in the EU. Unfortunately nobody pointed out the two are mutually exclusive, following your train of thought.

The natural evolution of the GFA and a solution to the NI/Brexit problem are not the same thing and to to be forced to make them so is my definition of weaponising the issue.

I would suggest that it is not that straight forward and if you think it is, then I would like to see meat put on the bones of your original response to Alex above.
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BTW - the use of 'explosive' was not for any (not so) clever purpose
 
Didsbury Dave said:
That's my point exactly, mate. I'm mad as fire already at the charlatans who've lied their way to Brexit, and I'm utterly frustrated at those who they've conned. But if it does happen, and it's still a big if in my opinion, then the "told you so" resentment from those of us who could see it for what it was will be unlike anything this country has ever seen.

Leavers love to threaten riots, and their threats have currency because the type of person who riots is usually a Brexiteer. But riots aren't really the biggest problem: they'll be over in a week. The young are going to turn against the old if we do leave the EU because of the suffering which we will all feel. And I'll be on their side.
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Didsbury is going after Ethel if he doesn’t get his way.

Pmsl that’s proper tickled me. Hide your Werther's Albert.

Beats Pret woman hands down as my favourite ever smacked arse comment by a remainer.
 
Chippy_boy said:
We'll see won't we mate. I'm going to stick my neck out and say there will be a breakthrough on the deal front this week, leading to a deal in principle and moves to vote on it in the HoC within the next 2 weeks. It's only a hunch and could be completely wrong, but we'll know in a few weeks.
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But the deal has to be "significantly different" to the WA or it can't come back to the commons without an election. It's already been voted on 3 times. The EU are not going to move much and the ERG aren't going to let a fourth reading get through.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I am enjoying the discussion with yourself and Alex - and I will try to contribute as much as I can - that said pre-match drinks start in a short while for me

Let me plant a seed though, for Alex and yourself.....

I will try and give as clear a response as I can - I do not claim to have great insights - just happy to discuss, but…..

Generally the majority of the discussion/posts around this topic comes from UK mainland based Remainers who seem to just see the topic as something to use to seek to stop Brexit. With a few notable exceptions, I regard their protestations to be both insincere and ill-informed.

I guess that it should not be a surprise that the better quality content tends to come from those living in N.I. and Ireland - at the coal-face so to speak - although some of the Ireland based posts, not yours, seem to be unnecessarily dripping with 'anti-English' tones.

So let's try and avoid a Westminster situation where all the interaction goes into screaming about what people don't want but little into what people do want.

So - probably have to be after the match now - can you guys give thought to what you would like to see given that the 2016 referendum has taken place and returned a decision to leave the EU. Simply saying versions of 'no fair' and that it should be cancelled just deny the reality - I see the 2016 referendum as every bit as important to my future as you see the GFA. I would hope that you can respect that English people have a right to seek to secure what they see as vital to their nation's future prosperity as I respect yours. What would you see as the options to address the border issue?

Personally I am struggling to get past the opinion that it is entirely within the capabilities of the 3 parties to establish alternative arrangements to maintain a situation where there is still free movement of people and trade - it just needs goodwill on all sides - FFS we could have been working together for 3 years already.

I would see a transition period of 2-3 years during which all arrangements can be finalised and workarounds developed where needed. The EU would/should be able to introduce controls that satisfy its concerns for the SM. Essentially the EU, Ireland and the UK draft the replacement GFA that will last for generations to come.

If there was not a successful outcome (replacement GFA) - and I believe that this will only not occur if there is a lack of goodwill - then there should be a vote in N.I. for self-determination of their future - 2 obvious options are a United Ireland or the Irish Sea border but I suspect you will suggest others.

The problem has been to date that there has been rank incompetence on the UK side and clever manipulation by the EU who want Brexit cancelled and the UK to Remain - or if not full control over key UK policies

What do you see as the options - given the starting point of the UK is leaving the EU. You will see from my viewpoint that I do not see it to be necessary for the UK to retain membership of the SM or CU for things to be resolved.
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Im keen to answer this...largely cos it might actually help me properly consider what i want...rather than dont want.
I fear i just dont bloody know the solutions....but yeah will gladly consider other (your) opinions....

Match first....
 
bluejon said:
When you start calling people stupid don't be surprised if they start insulting you. Anyway, I made it clear I consider it a complete waste of time discussing this with you so please go and mither someone else.
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WTF - mither someone else? - I was/am just replying to a post you made to me

Also - if you are going to - let's say fabricate things - then I suggest that you should be careful not to be so easily caught out for being so 'disingenuous'.

Our exchange today started with this post from you in reply to a post from me to someone else.

Straight into the insults weren't you? I had not called you stupid - that is your 'fabrication'.

bluejon said:
I've gone for the full combination of bold, italics and underline here out of respect for the ridiculousness of this comment. Bravo sir. The history of the island of Ireland is the reason this issue is weaponised, not the EU. Furthermore, it is not the EU who is trying to change things that are potentially going to break the peace agreement, it is the UK. And if you didn't understand there would be an issue with the border then that just shows you're a bit clueless.
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In my further reply I simply referred to such insults as being childish - which I think would seem fair enough

I hope that if you realise that if you respond with more abuse it will be you mithering me
 
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hilts said:
Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Didsbury is going after Ethel if he doesn’t get his way.

Pmsl that’s proper tickled me. Hide your Werther's Albert.

Beats Pret woman hands down as my favourite ever smacked arse comment by a remainer.
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Right.

I’m I supposed to be “hurt” by this or something? Have I been “owned”?

By the way, I enjoyed Chris making you look like a silly little boy this afternoon.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Their plan has always been no deal. Davies started it all off when he was in the job. He didn't even turn up for meetings. That's why May ended up so involved.

They would be gutted if they had no option but to vote a deal through, as would Boris imo.
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That is pure rewriting of the facts or just making it up

I am no supporter of Davis but he and the other SoSs were undermined by May having Robbins work directly to her

To suggest that it was all part of a cunning plan is - well bollocks
 
Chippy_boy said:
We'll see won't we mate. I'm going to stick my neck out and say there will be a breakthrough on the deal front this week, leading to a deal in principle and moves to vote on it in the HoC within the next 2 weeks. It's only a hunch and could be completely wrong, but we'll know in a few weeks.
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I cannot see how he can bring anything back to parliament - the vote will be hijacked to add a confirmatory referendum

I think that he will just have to see out October then shame Corbyn into a GE
 
Didsbury Dave said:
Right.

I’m I supposed to be “hurt” by this or something? Have I been “owned”?

By the way, I enjoyed Chris making you look like a silly little boy this afternoon.
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You seem hurt all the time in fairness fella, this is all out of your and my hands, have a chill

Last sentence of your post by the way haha. You made me look silly so I will claim you also looked silly. Proper playground stuff. If you go rampaging through the local Darby and Joan club can you pick us up some pork scratchings please? Ta:-)
 
Time for a thread time out, the magic roundabout is "over-reving", the level of anger and personal stuff, not getting better. Turn the gas off, get back to a gentle simmer and start again. Just sayin' like
 
mcfc1632 said:
Well - my view that the referendum has primacy is with regards to the full scope of Brexit

On the specific issue of the border the aspiration should be for no hard border of a nature that would be 'traditional' and for arrangements to be developed that make movement of trade and people hassle free - this of course could have been readily achieved with goodwill and close working and the issue not been weaponised.
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I know you're view is that Brexit trumps everything I was wondering if you could justify how an advisory referendum rides roughshod over a legally enshrined peace treaty. It astounds me how you trivialize the GFA and the need for it in the first place these are decades old tensions at stake and it's still in its infancy, this is the first generation of young adults who've grown up in this new environment. Chucking in terms like 'weaponised' and in the post I originally responded to 'explosive' only compounds that view.
 
bellbuzzer said:
Time for a thread time out, the magic roundabout is "over-reving", the level of anger and personal stuff, not getting better. Turn the gas off, get back to a gentle simmer and start again. Just sayin' like
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Good advice. It's just a bunch of sad tossers talking bollocks on a footy forum. Some perspective is needed.
 
George Hannah said:
Ah, the old Irish proverb - 'wherever we're going we shouldn't be starting from here' - but here, regrettably and unalterably, is where we now are. The constitutionally alien 2016 referendum, the 2017 election with both main parties mandated to honour its result, an underplanned invocation of A50 etc etc are all historical events and can't be wished away when trying to resolve the problem. It now looks like we can't get out at all without inflicting unnecessary economic damage on ourselves because of lack of proper preparation to meet the EU's unchanging objectives. The argument that a second referendum is a legitimate democratic solution would only be allowed to work if Remain won so, very reluctantly, I suggest we hold our noses vote Lib Dem and revoke. Then we need to reform the EU or find another way out if they continue along the path to a superstate.
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The army call it the seven Ps.

Proper planning and preparation prevents poor performance.
 
hilts said:
Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Didsbury is going after Ethel if he doesn’t get his way.

Pmsl that’s proper tickled me. Hide your Werther's Albert.

Beats Pret woman hands down as my favourite ever smacked arse comment by a remainer.
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Needs to apply 3 times a day.

48828064756_9fbd3f0cc9_m.jpg
 
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