Another new Brexit thread

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Ban-jani said:
The EU and more specifically Ireland are definitely not going to pass this.

It’s utterly deluded to think otherwise.

This proposal by Johnson isn’t supposed to get through, it’s supposed to be rejected by the EU because it’s totally unacceptable. He can then blame the EU and allow the leave vote to believe him.
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And plenty of mugs will fall for it too.
 
Mike D said:
Yep he's now proclaiming this is a starting point because up until now he has came out with a lot of hot air and now he has managed to get it down on paper as the EU has asked him to do. We know why Johnson is so bad at attention to detail because he doesn't a fucking clue and has been winging it from the day he was born.
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I’ve done jobs at various levels, and some you can get away with winging it, and others you simply can’t. I suspect being an MP with a huge majority falls into the former; running the country manifestly falls into the latter, as I suspect Johnson is now starting to discover.
 
Neville Kneville said:
It isn't that, at all.

It is simply pointing out, that there comes a point where it's so far into the future, it is difficult to be certain which event causes which outcome.

Any hard Brexit will be an almighty fucking mess which will continue to fuck up many people's lives & deny the young generations, the opportunities, we had.

Whether the country recovers from it, eventually, to be in as good, or better position than it would have otherwise been, is impossible to predict. We could discover a new means of energy & be rich or descend into civil war, for all we know.

If I had to guess, I'd imagine we'd be signed up back in some kind of agreement with Europe.
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Good guess and I respect that

My guess would be that if we actually (genuinely) leave then in 5 years people will not even be talking about Brexit (apart from those genuine enough to feel the need to offer thanks for those with foresight)
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
We did, at some length, even more incredibly upon reflection. What a complete fucking abortion.
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It’s our smug insularity that is the problem as this from Sky News highlights...

‘Today has demonstrated the cosy insularity of Westminster once again. MPs patting each other on the back for finally finding a way for half to agree with themselves with almost no regard to the other party (the EU) and the most critical component of that party, the Irish. I would have expected scenes like today if a deal had been a) agreed and b) passed. The repeated references to the PM’s “deal” from MPs betray a truth, that too many think politics stops at the members’ lobby.

An EU source texts: “it’s insane”.’
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Yeah well tell us your proposal , or your twelve year olds then ?

It’s easy just saying no, bollox , rubbish all the time but very hard to actually do or propose something workable but go on
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If we must leave, stay in Customs Union and Single Market. Join EFTA and EEA.
Assume leading role as largest nation in EFTA to give us back some of the clout we will have lost by departing the EU.
Union Jack down in Brussels and up at EFTA HQ in Geneva.
That's my solution.
 
west didsblue said:
If we must leave, Customs Union and Single Market. Join EFTA and EEA.
Assume leading role as largest nation in EFTA to give us back some of the clout we will have lost by departing the EU.
Union Jack down in Brussels and up at EFTA HQ in Geneva.
That's my solution.
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Thank you totally fine by me . Get yourself to Parliament
 
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mcfc1632 said:
Good guess and I respect that

My guess would be that if we actually (genuinely) leave then in 5 years people will not even be talking about Brexit (apart from those genuine enough to feel the need to offer thanks for those with foresight)
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I know you are probably still keeping in mind replying to my previous post, but no need, I'll move the discussion along as it goes at such a pace in here.
When you say people will not be talking about Brexit in 5 years I think you mean English People.
I've thought more about what is being proposed and although we are not privy to the detail that the EU and Irish Government will be scrutinising, I think it is safe to say that any party agreeing to this in the republic will be committing political suicide.
I know I take you up on the use of the word 'weaponised', sometimes jokingly, but what is being offered here by Boris, no matter how clever a ploy or strategy it may seem in what has become a game all about winning, is duplicitous (to use another favourite) insidious (in it's intent to circumvent the GFA), and just downright wrong.
The people of Northern Ireland and Ireland will still be talking about this in 5 years time if they are stupid enough to accept this proposal.
And they'll have a lot more to worry about than simply trade.
I still maintain this is all about the blame game for a UK general election, but the using of the GFA, as a tool to get the DUP on board is a serious breech of trust.
This proposal in my mind gives the illusion of letting the people of Northern Ireland decide, while at the same time undermining the GFA which actually does give them self determination, while getting the Tory government out of the responsibility of actually having to renegotiate an international treaty.
As I've said before 'a solution to customs at a NI border' in a Brexit negotiation and the natural evolution of the GFA are two entirely different things and the persistent use of the GFA as a tool in their strategy is what is completely duplicitous about Johnson's position.
This is nothing to do with customs checks or FOM CU or the rest. It removes the GFA from the equation surreptitiously and of course the DUP love it. this is why they'll agree to a short term border down the Irish Sea. Because after four years it basically cements them in the Union and traps half the population of Northern Ireland if not more in there with them.
Politically this will not wash here. As I said to endorse this would be political suicide and the two main parties will not go for it. IMO of course.
 
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hgblue said:
ERG on board, DUP on board, a route back into the fold for the Tory rebels, 30 or so Labour MPs minded to vote for a deal, I’m optimistic the basis for a viable deal is emerging.
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You know it has to make it past the EU first right?
The Irish won't agree to it if it violates the GFA
 
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