I'm no fan of the SNP but the Scottish people can vote for whoever they want. If they think that the main UK wide parties don't do enough for them, then it's hardly surprising that they have picked up a lot of support.It's sad that a group like the SNP are in the UK parliament.
Attack them.
"we" as a colloquialism for "UK". I should have thought that was easy enough to figure out when discussing veto's.
As i've told you time and time again, it's not about veto's, it's about opposing what Europe is becoming at the hands of a few.
The EU goes down a path we disagree with, and we say "we want no part of it", just proves how the political aspects of the EU and the UK are completely different and that we shold be part of a European organisation that has no
"we" as a colloquialism for "UK". I should have thought that was easy enough to figure out when discussing veto's.
As do I, which is why I voted to leave the political EU in favour of rejoining the trade focused EFTA.I guess it had always been expressed by leaders in Britain that they wanted to lead the EU to a model that it thought ideal and fair enough nothing wrong with that desire. It did prove that the continentals think somewhat differently about the future of the Union and Britain never found much support for it's own vision within the EU.
I can understand that this was difficult for the UK given historical leadership roles and relations (for example with the commonwealth and the US) in comparison to various EU country's. It fit's imho within a larger abstract discussion wether Britain is an island off Europe of part of Europe in a cultural and political sense. In that sense i simply respect British self determination as expressed before.
I don't think you understand the UK's postion very well tbh.Thats a weird reflection. The EU has various partners in different levels of cooperation and this seems to work fine. There was only one who ever was to get "the UK deal" of course, and that more reflected some advantage the UK had for being a early member imho.
Well it would just be "about the name" then, at least if the perception that with its opt outs the UK had positioned itself into the best relation it could have with the EU.
If you want to call a spade a spade, then i think youre previous point regarding "making youre own trade agreements" is more telling. It simply comes across (for the EU) as the UK being willing to reposition itself from a relation where it was in the customs union by choice, to a relation where now it would be out of it by choice.
I'm afraid you have associated me with a position I merely described. I want the UK out of the EU intact, if parts of it think they would be better off as independent countries then good luck to them.England according to popular opinion subsidise the Scots. In the EU the richer Northern states subsidise the "feckless" south.
Ergo you should be in favour of the Scots leaving the UK if you are in favour of leaving the EU.
That is your argument as I see it. The Argument can also apply to London leaving England as it subsidises the rest of England and so on and so on.
In any state their are regional disparities not only based on GDP but occasionally on necessity. It was necessary for the UK to subsidise Gibraltar for instance so it could have control of the straits when our Navy ruled the waves. George Galloway is interesting on this as an ardent leaver, he doesn't believe in Catalonian independence as that will leave the rest of Spain worse off, he doesn't believe in Scottish independence for similar reasons and I disagree with George Galloway here because if leaving does give more autonomy then it should apply across the board not just to chosen areas. As I have stated I would rather a fully federated EU rather than the remain option of status quo and that would mean an effective redistribution of resources across the whole of the EU rather than the situation we have now which is partial redistribution due to the strength of the northern economies.
Seeing as that is not or never was an option given to us, I leaned towards leave with the caveat that all areas that wanted to leave whatever union they are in should also be able to do so.
Why is it so frustrating talking to you. It's like you make up your own interpretation of what's said.
EFTA. That's what I was getting at. Separate from the EU, has agreements with the EU that benefits it's members, doesn't ask for members to be involved in political integration or a customs union, but members are free to join one if they so wish, but those agreements do not affect other EFTA members.
Yeah you've lost the plot here.Forgive my implied stupidty.
Here's me thinking that when you say 'it's not about vetos' then you mean 'its not about vetos' but I should of course realise it's Bexitspeak.
No wonder 1932 keeps telling me I am not smart enough to understand it.
I'm genuinely not.
Many Brexiteers want exactly that as they see Scotland as a drain on the UK.England according to popular opinion subsidise the Scots. In the EU the richer Northern states subsidise the "feckless" south.
Ergo you should be in favour of the Scots leaving the UK if you are in favour of leaving the EU.
That is your argument as I see it.
The Argument can also apply to London leaving England as it subsidises the rest of England and so on and so on.
Not sure if it's what the UK as a whole now thinks is best, but it is what I think is best and always have done, since you asked me that.? Not sure what you see as misinterpretated, i guess it's just a matter of emphaty in communications? Getting what the other is saying within a complex and often abstract discussion?
Sure, i mean if the Uk now thinks thats best for it, by all means.
I wondered why that new relationship would suddenty considered to be more optimal for the UK as a relation to the EU. As i preceive it for you it simply follows from a preference that the UK would be able to do it's own trade deals. AKA youre not going to give me the economic argument (which would be hard) as to why it's better, simply propose it as a preference that is traditionally held by the UK which imho is fine.
Yeah you've lost the plot here.
You initially wanted to correct me by saying I should stop using the term "we" as it was a "leave decision". I corrected you by saying the "we" meant "UK" in the context that "WE (the UK, as that is where I live) have vetos".
Again, you're having an argument i'm not even having, and now continuing it. Yes, we lost last night, sucks but aim your anger at someone else, k?
Not as simple as that at all - you obviously don't spend much time up thereThey were lied to .... simple as that. The Conservatives promised that by staying in the UK the Scots were guaranteed continued membership of the European Union.
So what are you arguing here?That's very dishonest of you.
I replied to that post, which I quoted.
Ramble on mate - you have amply demonstrated your 'values' - and they certainly do not prevent dishonesty about what has ben exchangedI am calling you out on behaving exactly like Boris Johnson.
The main single person I 'insult' on this forum, is you by the way & not very often others, as you found recently when failling to find any evidence whatsoever after accusing me of it during one discussion & then Borislike, pretended you meant something else, which couldn't be quantified. I generally insult the p.o.v. if I think it's total shit, not the person, unless they head down that road, in which case I reply in kind.
I actually avoid insulting you most of the time too but it's fairly pointless as you mainly respond in the same Borislike manner, irrespective.
I recenltly very civilly asked you a selection of points, which you dodged & failed to answer (Borislike) then made a bit of a speech enforicing your own opinion (Borislike) & then began insulting those who didn't agree with you (Borislike) then accused them of being responsible for lowering the tone rather than yourself (Borislike).
You can insult me as much as you like by the way, I don't mind at all
I just don't respect those who do exactly that & then whinge about it.
And where have they made that wealth? They weren't making it in Scotland.Many Brexiteers want exactly that as they see Scotland as a drain on the UK.
What the English proponents of Scottish independence don't seem to factor in is the amount of English wealth generated by Scottish people living south of the border. If a significant number of them upped sticks and headed north after Brexit, England would lose out enormously.
Who are they then?People who want to leave the EU but then tell Scotland they're not allowed to vote on independence are the definition of wanting to have their cake and eat it.
Ramble on mate - you have amply demonstrated your 'values' - and they certainly do not prevent dishonesty about what has ben exchanged
Crack on - argue by yourself as I am not interested
I'm afraid you have associated me with a position I merely described. I want the UK out of the EU intact, if parts of it think they would be better off as independent countries then good luck to them.
So what are you arguing here?
I've already stated, i'm not even advocating the argument you seem to be making.
Who gives a toss? Not the Scots.
Youre naive if you think that what you mentioned would realisticly stop any people that desired independance.
I respect self determinism at all times, i respected the UK wish to leave, i'd respect a scotish desire to be independant aswell. In such a case the Scots have the right to declare themselves free any time they wish, and any limitation on such self determination would utimatly be a form of tyrany itself.
Youre naive if you think that what you mentioned would stop any people that desired independance.
The EU is not perfect but i don't think i have any duty whatsoever to explain that given the context of the thread and the typical discussion. I certaintly do't have any responsabillety towards you when i'm simply scrutinizing youre nonsense.
AND if you didn't see me doing any such considerations, you can hardly contemplate my capabilety for it anyhow, youre last remark is stupid in itself imho, i mean you havn't even proven youre capability to hammer in a nail. Judging by what i can only see on this forum, you are actually an armless, limbless and sexless object who's only method of communication is Braille trough the tongue. There is no indication whatsoever on this forum that you would be anything else than what i can immagine, because you havn't explicitly shows youre capability's here to move arms or legs etc.
Economists for one:Who are they then?
Seems a lot of stuff is continued to be made up
Brexit has certainly introduced some strange thinking into our political discourse.Many Brexiteers want exactly that as they see Scotland as a drain on the UK.
What the English proponents of Scottish independence don't seem to factor in is the amount of English wealth generated by Scottish people living south of the border. If a significant number of them upped sticks and headed north after Brexit, England would lose out enormously.