Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

They are the parameters I presented you with because that (in my view) is the choice we will all ultimately be compelled to make. I had no preference as to how you answered, merely a degree of amusement as you backtracked from your first answer and then struggled to reconcile it with the second - especially that line ‘If no such offer is presented, I will not support either.’

Never mind, we’re all entitled to change our minds.

Then why be surprised by my response, only to call it "contradictory"? I wouldn't "support" Utd vs Liverpool in a Champions League Final, but if someone like yourself told me I had to make a choice, knowing I wouldn't choose abstaining, why be surprised by my response, even if you found it "contradictory" to my opinion that I don't "support" either team? Sorry to bring "footbalisation" into it, but it appears the only way to make you understand.

Leaving the EU is what I support, no matter how it is carried out. In your binary choices, that leaves me with only one theoretical option, even if I don't "support" it.

I don't share your view about a binary choice. You are the one who believes there will be a binary choice. So long as a deal is possible, I will vote to leave the EU.

 

[BobKowalski]

But there's currently no mandate to remain.

There is no mandate for Johnson to be PM but there you go.

Remain is the default setting. Our entire economy is geared to remain. We are a fully integrated EU economy within the EU bloc. People voting it otherwise doesn’t change that reality. To change reality you need a detailed plan to transform the U.K. economy. You need billions and probably a decade give or take a year or two. You also need to get all four countries of our Union on side especially the one that actually shares a border with the EU. And you need to get half the country back on side.

Line up all that and you’re good to go.

 

[i kne albert davy]

You don’t have to honour it. People spent decades plotting and agitating to leave the EU. Pity they didn’t put any thought into how to actually do it. Maybe next time they will correct this small, but crucial, oversight.

At least your future's planned out from the 1st of November you'll be able to start agitating and plotting how to get the country back in the EU. Good luck with that.

 

[BobKowalski]

Wow, So even if it's another vote for leave, we just remain. Lol. You really couldn't care less about anyone else's point of view do you as long as you get your way. At least your honest I supose.

If there is a vote to leave again then this is what you need.

Remain is the default setting. Our entire economy is geared to remain. We are a fully integrated EU economy within the EU bloc. People voting it otherwise doesn’t change that reality. To change reality you need a detailed plan to transform the U.K. economy. You need billions and probably a decade give or take a year or two. You also need to get all four countries of our Union on side especially the one that actually shares a border with the EU.

If we keep ignoring the reality of what leave actually means then it will always fail.

 

[BobKowalski]

At least your future's planned out from the 1st of November you'll be able to start agitating and plotting how to get the country back in the EU. Good luck with that.

We will still be in the EU after 1st November.

 

[Metal Biker]

There is no mandate for Johnson to be PM but there you go.

Remain is the default setting. Our entire economy is geared to remain. We are a fully integrated EU economy within the EU bloc. People voting it otherwise doesn’t change that reality. To change reality you need a detailed plan to transform the U.K. economy. You need billions and probably a decade give or take a year or two. You also need to get all four countries of our Union on side especially the one that actually shares a border with the EU. And you need to get half the country back on side.

Line up all that and you’re good to go.

We don't choose PM's though, and we don't choose the Government's policies. We elect them on the backs they will fulfil their manifesto promises, but we cannot force them.

The Government continues to use the referendum result as a mandate to leave the EU. There is currently no official democratic mandate to remain in the EU.

 

[Chris in London]

Then why be surprised by my response, only to call it "contradictory"? .

Because you changed your mind within 13 minutes.

 

[Metal Biker]

Because you changed your mind within 13 minutes.

No I didn't. Again, what is it that you cannot understand, that because I don't support no deal or remaining, being asked to choose one or the other, i'd choose no deal as it would result in us leaving, which is my overall objective as it honours democracy. You presented those options to me, and I told you I don't support either. But if you were to push me, force me to accept one (as you said I was a leaver who wouldn't vote, which I told you wasn't the case) it would still be no deal over remain, although it's not an option i'd realistically want to see carried out, yet is still preferable to remaining.

I'm shocked that you're so close-minded on this.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

If there is a vote to leave again then this is what you need.



If we keep ignoring the reality of what leave actually means then it will always fail.

But you said you would ignore it and remain anyway. Lol.

Alternatively if you don't want to leave you will always fail like May and yourself. You see only negatives. You are simply not prepared to even countenance even trying to leave.

 

[i kne albert davy]

We will still be in the EU after 1st November.

We'll see.

 

[Chris in London]

No I didn't. Again, what is it that you cannot understand, that because I don't support no deal or remaining, being asked to choose one or the other, i'd choose no deal as it would result in us leaving, which is my overall objective as it honours democracy.

I'm shocked that you're so close-minded on this.

No? I said ‘we’re all entitled to change our minds’ and you said ‘why be surprised by it.’

So were you changing your mind or just contradicting yourself? I wish you’d make up your mind.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Very little change on here I see. Good night gents.

 

[Metal Biker]

No? I said ‘we’re all entitled to change our minds’ and you said ‘why be surprised by it.’

So we’re you changing your mind or just contradicting yourself?

Neither. You presented me with a binary choice and said I had to choose one or the other. Given the options, i chose one which appealed more.

If I had said "remain" you'd have called me a remainer now and that i'd "changed my mind" either way. It was a loaded question.

I could'nt choose "neither" in the scenario you'd presented, and whichever I then chose, you'd have said i'd "changed my mind".

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

We will still be in the EU after 1st November.

We agree on that. Remain by deceitful MPs lol

 

[Metal Biker]

Very little change on here I see. Good night gents.

We had reached a compromise there, for a while.

Shame. Lasted about two weeks. Back to the echo chambers, I guess ;)

 

[Dubai Blue]

No? I said ‘we’re all entitled to change our minds’ and you said ‘why be surprised by it.’

So were you changing your mind or just contradicting yourself? I wish you’d make up your mind.

You're making needlessly hard work of this. He was pretty clear from the start; it's you who seems to have misunderstood his stance.

He won't actively "support" no deal, but he will vote for it if that's the only leave option presented to him. I don't understand why his stance is causing so much confusion.

 

[Metal Biker]

You're making needlessly hard work of this. He was pretty clear from the start; it's you who seems to have misunderstood his stance.

He won't actively "support" no deal, but he will vote for it if that's the only leave option presented to him. I don't understand why his stance is causing so much confusion.

Exactly. I'm no "No deal" advocate, and if those were the only options, I wouldn't 'support' either them, but if I was told remaining or no deal were the ONLY options, I'd have to choose no deal as it was the only two options that would satisfy my stance of wanting to leave the EU.

Doesn't mean I want it, advocate it, or support it, but neither do I support remaining, if those were the only options available. I'd sooner choose EFTA/EEA/CU over remaining, and that's as close to the EU as you can get.

 

[Chris in London]

Neither. You presented me with a binary choice and said I had to choose one or the other. Given the options, i chose one which appealed more.

Well that can’t be right, can it? In your first reply you said you would choose neither to which I replied that I read that as meaning you would abstain. So that’s not telling you you have to choose one or the other, it is? It was only after I said that an abstention was one fewer leave vote that you changed to no deal.

Want to have another go?

 

[Chris in London]

You're making needlessly hard work of this. He was pretty clear from the start; it's you who seems to have misunderstood his stance.

He won't actively "support" no deal, but he will vote for it if that's the only leave option presented to him. I don't understand why his stance is causing so much confusion.

Not at all. Read the thread

 

[Metal Biker]

Well that can’t be right, can it? In your first reply you said you would choose neither to which I replied that I read that as meaning you would abstain. So that’s not telling you you have to choose one or the other, it is? It was only after I said that an abstention was one fewer leave vote that you changed to no deal.

Want to have another go?

Yes, I would choose to support neither.

No, I would not abstain from voting in a binary choice, if those were the only two choices available, I would vote for the one which satisfied the public mandate to leave the EU, which given one is not leaving and the other IS leaving, i'd choose the one that was.

Given in that scenario you presented, the "leave" option is to "leave without a deal", something I do not wish to conclude, support, champion or campaign for, you leave me with onyl one choice, remaining, something I also do not support, much less than the other singular choice you gave. Neither have I ever stated I would abstain if that binary choice were presented to me. YOU assumed that on your own.

From that, you've dragged it on, trying to imply i'm being contradictory for supporting one stance over the other, whilst previously stating I don't support either stance. I even gave you an analogy to show how such a stance is possible, yet you still refuse to accept it. Why?