The Conservative Party

Len Rum said:
You're right with your first # mate. IFS predicting highest national debt for 50 years in the event of TORY no deal brexit.
As for your second #, don't be harsh on yourself.
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Glad to be of assistance Len. I know how much you like to bang on about spiralling national debt. Silly of you to have missed it. As well as just being silly of you more generally, as per.
 
Mike D said:
The tax payer has always paid it in the past what's the issue? We have skill shortages in areas such doctors and surgeons why not pay for and train our own.
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Not sure where you have been the last 40 years but many many doctors and nurses come from abroad to the UK to work in the NHS having been trained in their home countries at their tax payers expense. One of the issues we have with the one's we do train is that they move abroad for better pay, conditions, funding and better way of life in most cases. Even assuming we have the untapped resources of would be medical staff and are willing to pay for them to follow their vocation we will continue to do so for the benefit of the US, Australia and so on. At the same time we are blocking the ready supply we import - they would have to earn £30k and a junior doctor starts on £26.5k - Patel wants the bar raised to £36k pa to gain entry. Way way less than a nurse will earn and because of a high demand for visa's and the cap we place on skilled immigration that effectively means to get a visa a junior doctor would need to earn £50-55k pa as sum which none of them will ever learn whilst training. There are no simple answers particularly when Brexit and immigration are in play.
 
Len Rum said:
Even if one accepted your editing of my post it still remains a TORY clusterfcuk.
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Not anymore it isn’t hence labours rather muddled and desperate attempt at avoidance, bxp and the Dems have taken it as an opportunity. With the numbers in parliament and a general election looming it’s everyones clusterfuck I’m afraid.
 
hilts said:
Not anymore it isn’t hence labours rather muddled and desperate attempt at avoidance, bxp and the Dems have taken it as an opportunity. With the numbers in parliament and a general election looming it’s everyones clusterfuck I’m afraid.
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If you come into my house and set fire to it and then I screw up in putting the fire out then I suppose I bear some responsibility for the house burning down.
But if you hadn't set fire to it in the first place.
 
Len Rum said:
If you come into my house and set fire to it and then I screw up in putting the fire out then I suppose I bear some responsibility for the house burning down.
But if you hadn't set fire to it in the first place.
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And if you weren’t so dismissive of my concerns and were less elitist in your attitude I wouldn’t have even bothered buying the matches. We could do this all day:-)
 
Mike D said:
The tax payer has always paid it in the past what's the issue? We have skill shortages in areas such doctors and surgeons why not pay for and train our own.
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A different issue to how students fund their studies. If you think I'm worried about how doctors and surgeons on six figure salaries pay for their education, I'm not.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
A different issue to how students fund their studies. If you think I'm worried about how doctors and surgeons on six figure salaries pay for their education, I'm not.
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Education should be free for life for everybody regardless of circumstances. Labours proposed national education service is a brilliant idea and worthy of support.

I have said before on here that we look on education the wrong way, we look at it as provision rather than investment. It is capital investment because it increases the skill set of the population. Increase the skill set and you narrow the productivity gap. Narrow that gap and you are on the way to reducing inequality. A better educated workforce is necessary in a post Brexit world as we will have to meet the competitive challenges of other nations without the rights of freedom of movement for the better qualified Europeans we currently attract. Make sure our populace is well educated and they meet the needs of the country.

I also believe we stop education too early, we should be learning all our life. I take great joy now in learning and expanding my horizons. In the last few years I have done History and General Studies A-Levels. I now have 7 A-levels, I have also done a Counselling course which I paid for myself, it was only the basics and I wanted to carry on as I really enjoyed the subject and it is very useful for the projects I am involved in. To do the further advanced Counselling course I would have had to pay nearly £700 for a 12 month course which I simply could not afford. Because of my age I am discouraged from learning because of financial constrictions and that is just silly, If I could have done the advanced course I would be far better qualified to do what I do and as a result society as a whole may have benefitted from my further education.

If money is the reason we keep society undereducated we are losing out on the vast potential of many people who have lots to offer but simply cant afford to pay for it themselves. That is why it should be seen as an investment , in my case an investment in my education would have helped me make a far greater contribution to the projects I am involved with which ultimately aim to save money and create better public services for everyone.

There is also the social effect of continual education, we can all better ourselves and become more rounded human beings, we can get greater enjoyment from this short life of ours and if that means we want to learn about the music of Wagner, the poetry of Milton or the basket weaving skills of an Amazonian tribe of Pygmies then we should as it is enhances our lives and it enhances the cultural knowledge of the nation.

Education should not be rationed, if it is it becomes the preserve of the wealthy to the detriment of those without wealth and the potential of many people goes to waste. Of course there will be people who are happy with their level of knowledge and there will be those who are unable to increase their knowledge but that should not matter, the opportunity to increase knowledge should always be available to everyone whatever the cost and it should be the state that provides that opportunity because ultimately the state will benefit.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Not sure where you have been the last 40 years but many many doctors and nurses come from abroad to the UK to work in the NHS having been trained in their home countries at their tax payers expense. One of the issues we have with the one's we do train is that they move abroad for better pay, conditions, funding and better way of life in most cases. Even assuming we have the untapped resources of would be medical staff and are willing to pay for them to follow their vocation we will continue to do so for the benefit of the US, Australia and so on. At the same time we are blocking the ready supply we import - they would have to earn £30k and a junior doctor starts on £26.5k - Patel wants the bar raised to £36k pa to gain entry. Way way less than a nurse will earn and because of a high demand for visa's and the cap we place on skilled immigration that effectively means to get a visa a junior doctor would need to earn £50-55k pa as sum which none of them will ever learn whilst training. There are no simple answers particularly when Brexit and immigration are in play.
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Medicine was one example where we could excel, education should be seen as an investment in our future economy not a burden to the tax payer.
Anything that knuckle dragger Pratel says hopefully we can take with a pinch of salt because hopefully the vile bitch will be gone soon.
 
TheRemainsOfTheDave said:
A different issue to how students fund their studies. If you think I'm worried about how doctors and surgeons on six figure salaries pay for their education, I'm not.
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This is an example of typical short sightedness of people in this country. Do you know how expensive is to train to become a Doctor, do you know how many people from lower incomes become Doctors? This is not because poor people are thick on the contrary I know many people who have had the best education who are thick as pig shit our own PM and members of his cabinet are testament to that. Education like healthcare should form the pillars of our society every single person should have the opportunity to prosper in what ever they do.
 
Rascal said:
Education should be free for life for everybody regardless of circumstances. Labours proposed national education service is a brilliant idea and worthy of support.

I have said before on here that we look on education the wrong way, we look at it as provision rather than investment. It is capital investment because it increases the skill set of the population. Increase the skill set and you narrow the productivity gap. Narrow that gap and you are on the way to reducing inequality. A better educated workforce is necessary in a post Brexit world as we will have to meet the competitive challenges of other nations without the rights of freedom of movement for the better qualified Europeans we currently attract. Make sure our populace is well educated and they meet the needs of the country.

I also believe we stop education too early, we should be learning all our life. I take great joy now in learning and expanding my horizons. In the last few years I have done History and General Studies A-Levels. I now have 7 A-levels, I have also done a Counselling course which I paid for myself, it was only the basics and I wanted to carry on as I really enjoyed the subject and it is very useful for the projects I am involved in. To do the further advanced Counselling course I would have had to pay nearly £700 for a 12 month course which I simply could not afford. Because of my age I am discouraged from learning because of financial constrictions and that is just silly, If I could have done the advanced course I would be far better qualified to do what I do and as a result society as a whole may have benefitted from my further education.

If money is the reason we keep society undereducated we are losing out on the vast potential of many people who have lots to offer but simply cant afford to pay for it themselves. That is why it should be seen as an investment , in my case an investment in my education would have helped me make a far greater contribution to the projects I am involved with which ultimately aim to save money and create better public services for everyone.

There is also the social effect of continual education, we can all better ourselves and become more rounded human beings, we can get greater enjoyment from this short life of ours and if that means we want to learn about the music of Wagner, the poetry of Milton or the basket weaving skills of an Amazonian tribe of Pygmies then we should as it is enhances our lives and it enhances the cultural knowledge of the nation.

Education should not be rationed, if it is it becomes the preserve of the wealthy to the detriment of those without wealth and the potential of many people goes to waste. Of course there will be people who are happy with their level of knowledge and there will be those who are unable to increase their knowledge but that should not matter, the opportunity to increase knowledge should always be available to everyone whatever the cost and it should be the state that provides that opportunity because ultimately the state will benefit.
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A lot of what you say is generally accepted by the majority (e.g. learning all our life) but the current system, to me, appears to be funded in three ways ...

1) The students themselves (if or when they can afford it)
2) The parents of the students (if they can afford it)
3) The state (when 1 & 2 don't cover the cost)

The end effect is that there is no restriction (other than either personal circumstances, perception/misunderstanding of the loan funding mechanism and probable elitism at some institutions). There are more institutions, courses and students today than ever before and it attracts students from across the globe. By all means change the funding to a politically motivated one and watch it fought over for decades by the varying opinions but from what I see (and I was dead against student loans at the outset) I feel the current system works, although there are some issues, such as private & university landlords abusing the rent situation, that should be addressed.
 
Rascal said:
Education should be free for life for everybody regardless of circumstances. Labours proposed national education service is a brilliant idea and worthy of support.

I have said before on here that we look on education the wrong way, we look at it as provision rather than investment. It is capital investment because it increases the skill set of the population. Increase the skill set and you narrow the productivity gap. Narrow that gap and you are on the way to reducing inequality. A better educated workforce is necessary in a post Brexit world as we will have to meet the competitive challenges of other nations without the rights of freedom of movement for the better qualified Europeans we currently attract. Make sure our populace is well educated and they meet the needs of the country.

I also believe we stop education too early, we should be learning all our life. I take great joy now in learning and expanding my horizons. In the last few years I have done History and General Studies A-Levels. I now have 7 A-levels, I have also done a Counselling course which I paid for myself, it was only the basics and I wanted to carry on as I really enjoyed the subject and it is very useful for the projects I am involved in. To do the further advanced Counselling course I would have had to pay nearly £700 for a 12 month course which I simply could not afford. Because of my age I am discouraged from learning because of financial constrictions and that is just silly, If I could have done the advanced course I would be far better qualified to do what I do and as a result society as a whole may have benefitted from my further education.

If money is the reason we keep society undereducated we are losing out on the vast potential of many people who have lots to offer but simply cant afford to pay for it themselves. That is why it should be seen as an investment , in my case an investment in my education would have helped me make a far greater contribution to the projects I am involved with which ultimately aim to save money and create better public services for everyone.

There is also the social effect of continual education, we can all better ourselves and become more rounded human beings, we can get greater enjoyment from this short life of ours and if that means we want to learn about the music of Wagner, the poetry of Milton or the basket weaving skills of an Amazonian tribe of Pygmies then we should as it is enhances our lives and it enhances the cultural knowledge of the nation.

Education should not be rationed, if it is it becomes the preserve of the wealthy to the detriment of those without wealth and the potential of many people goes to waste. Of course there will be people who are happy with their level of knowledge and there will be those who are unable to increase their knowledge but that should not matter, the opportunity to increase knowledge should always be available to everyone whatever the cost and it should be the state that provides that opportunity because ultimately the state will benefit.
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Spot on Russ you only have to look at extreme examples like Cuba that was ostrisised and cut off by the US, okay they had massive oil reserves but they built their society on to basic principles Free Good Health and Education for everyone.
 
Mike D said:
This is an example of typical short sightedness of people in this country. Do you know how expensive is to train to become a Doctor, do you know how many people from lower incomes become Doctors? This is not because poor people are thick on the contrary I know many people who have had the best education who are thick as pig shit our own PM and members of his cabinet are testament to that. Education like healthcare should form the pillars of our society every single person should have the opportunity to prosper in what ever they do.
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Wind it in fella with your supercilious preaching, I am generalising about student funding as a whole (based on personal experience of going through the system three times) NOT particular needs of a sector. Of course I believe education is important, same with healthcare. Having worked in the NHS I know damn well how much it costs to train the staff but that is irrelevant when you also know how much percentage of wage is taken to pay for that training when they can afford it. If the system is tweaked to allow doctors and nurses to pay lower tuition fees, fair enough, but it's the same system.
 
Mike D said:
Spot on Russ you only have to look at extreme examples like Cuba that was ostrisised and cut off by the US, okay they had massive oil reserves but they built their society on to basic principles Free Good Health and Education for everyone.
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Nothing to do with the billions pumped in to Cuba's economy by the Soviet Union then?

Oh, and how come the Cuban healthcare system is ranked 39th best in the world by the WHO?



You're a fucking loon, you really are.
 
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