Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
BobKowalski said:
Because I didn’t relish the sight of the U.K. getting it’s arse handed to it in negotiations to extract itself and its economy from the European economic zone over the next decade or so.

I also believe in removing barriers to trade and to the free movement of people and the creation of an economic zone encompassing 30 countries that facilitates that is worth supporting. I’m not an isolationist nor a nationalist.

I don’t think removing peoples rights is acceptable. The decision taken in 2016 was wrong and the last three years have proven that to be the case given the vision that was sold as Brexit is no where near the reality. No deal was never mentioned, indeed we were told we would not change anything until the future relationship was sorted.

I didn’t believe the Brexit lies in 2016 and I don’t believe the Brexit lies now. I’m not arsed if we move to a Norway style Brexit but given everyone moved the goalposts after the referendum that is not possible so the only reasonable course of action left is to kill Brexit and oppose, rather than work with, those who support it. So far I have been pleasantly surprised by our success in stopping Brexit. I thought we would be out by now under May’s deal. Couldn’t believe the luck when Brexiteer MPs scuppered it.

Think that covers the basics.
Click to expand...
That's wonderful, I disagree with every word of it, but it's your view and choice.
My point was that after the vote, we've been asked incessantly why we didn't vote for remain, and it's now irrelevant.
At present we live in a democracy, which means everyone over a certain age gets a vote, no interviews are held, no preconditions are set, whoever you are, you get one (exceptions are prisoners and the insane I believe).
So if you voted to stay because you thought you could never travel to France, or to leave because you don't like Bratwurst, it matters not one jot, the vote is just as valid.
This is what people simply won't accept.
 
blueinsa said:
I'm just pleased you can also now see the end game ;-)
Click to expand...

I was just pointing out that Varadkar is the key player in these negotiations. How this phase ends is anybody’s guess but if I had to put money on it then it will be an extension to A50 after Dublin and London reach a tentative accord on some terms of reference. But it will still need putting into legally operable text and that is where it will succeed or fail.

Johnson needs a plausible off ramp for the A50 extension and Dublin can give him that at least.
 
George Hannah said:
lol - Covenay just on Sky telling us that a no deal would be a failure of statesmanship (heard that somewhere before) and it all needs to be settled in the "proper place - here in Brussells" - not quite Berlin but closer than Dublin. The BBC's EU conduit now giving us the "BoJo Isn't Serious" line.
Click to expand...

Anger yesterday, statesmanship and talk of a deal today.

Finishing line is in sight.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Running away? Especially when you quote individual sentences out of context and think it proves your point.
Either that or not quote the entire reply, and responding to that, anyone would think you're trying to manipulate responses so that you can make your arguments hold more weight, becuase without them, your argument falls apart.

You've even had other posters point out to you exactly what i've been saying, and you've refused to believe them.

Persistant, i'll give you that. But as i've said over and over, I support leaving the EU and rejoining the EFTA. I support any method that achieves that end result. I do not advocate or support leaving without a deal. I also do not, even more so, remaining. As I don't support either, I don't endorse either, but if, in a binary choice, those were the only options presented, and since I'm not someone who would abstain from making such a decision, i'd choose the option that satisfied my stance that we leave the EU.

I expect to explain this to you again in the near future.
Click to expand...

It was what the rest of the world calls going to bed. Odd that you should make that accusation given that you’d previously moaned about the length of the exchange, but as I say you genuinely don’t seem to know when you are contradicting yourself.

Oh well, have a good day, blue.
 
blueinsa said:
It's as biased as it can be and why not, it's the Irish Times with a narrative of how the Irsh hold the upper hand over the British.

I personally think they couldn't be more wrong and we will all soon find out.
Click to expand...
Fair does. Every paper you read has its own bias. I did chuckle at the report yesterday that our government would punish or reward individual EU countries based on their Brexit stance. Let’s see how well that works eh? You and I will agree on virtually nothing other than who the best team in the land and all the world is. We can remain perfectly civil though and I am sorry I was stroppy yesterday morning. Sometimes this stuff weighs on me too much.
 
Vic said:
Oooh, an accusation! Did she really, really use those words? Honestly, really? Timed? Sabotage? Very likely?

You know she didn't. The only poisonous stuff is your making stuff up.

And you missed off Hilary Benn's point that the current proposals that seem to be off would not get through Parliament because they've not seen the text. Not that that has stopped Tory MPs from being willing to buy a deal sight unseen.
Click to expand...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00095s6/newsnight-08102019 10'30 on - perhaps you need teletext?
 
George Hannah said:
You've read his masterpiece yet you still want an undemocratic, highly regulated future inside the big state - how odd. Isn't China enough of a warning about the EUs direction of travel?
Click to expand...

Well i'd wonder why you'd think the Eu to be very relevant to the book 1984. The story doesn't really so much explore the form of a goverment rather than give a message regarding propaganda/indoctrination and the sense that in a certain skinner box enviroment they would be able to make the people believe any story.

As such the book is far more relevant for discussing the state of UK media imho. You could also use it to discuss contemporary political languaghe -.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Fair does. Every paper you read has its own bias. I did chuckle at the report yesterday that our government would punish or reward individual EU countries based on their Brexit stance. Let’s see how well that works eh? You and I will agree on virtually nothing other than who the best team in the land and all the world is. We can remain perfectly civil though and I am sorry I was stroppy yesterday morning. Sometimes this stuff weighs on me too much.
Click to expand...

No need whatsoever to apologise fella.

I think we can agree that this needs to end and soon.

Make a decision. Leave or remain and deal with the fall out of either but let's move onto the next stage at least because this one is boring us all to fucking death.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Well i'd wonder why you'd think the Eu to be very relevant to the book 1984. The story doesn't really so much explore the form of a goverment rather than give a message regarding propaganda/indoctrination and the sense that in a certain skinner box enviroment they would be able to make the people believe any story.

As such the book is far more relevant for discussing the state of UK media imho.
Click to expand...
You need to read the book again or maybe look at the quotes in the BBC film posted last night to save you time.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Well i'd wonder why you'd think the Eu to be very relevant to the book 1984. The story doesn't really so much explore the form of a goverment rather than give a message regarding propaganda/indoctrination and the sense that in a certain skinner box enviroment they would be able to make the people believe any story.

As such the book is far more relevant for discussing the state of UK media imho.
Click to expand...

I believe the original (the first time it was brought up) reference was to orwell's essay on nationalism btw.
 
Coatigan said:
I believe the original (the first time it was brought up) reference was to orwell's essay on nationalism btw.
Click to expand...

Ah? I butted in on George his reaction, since i had my other impression on what 1984 was really about. That essay is likely different, just like "salut to Catalonia" aint 1984 neither.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
That's wonderful, I disagree with every word of it, but it's your view and choice.
My point was that after the vote, we've been asked incessantly why we didn't vote for remain, and it's now irrelevant.
At present we live in a democracy, which means everyone over a certain age gets a vote, no interviews are held, no preconditions are set, whoever you are, you get one (exceptions are prisoners and the insane I believe).
So if you voted to stay because you thought you could never travel to France, or to leave because you don't like Bratwurst, it matters not one jot, the vote is just as valid.
This is what people simply won't accept.
Click to expand...

No it’s accepted. But equally I get bored with people asking why I want to overturn ‘a democratic vote’ as if democratic votes are never overturned or re-examined or re-evaluated if issues or circumstances change.

Brexiteers should have used the referendum result to fashion a Brexit policy that found favour with a majority on both sides of the argument. Instead a hard line was adopted and polarisation and division deepened. The Treaty of Versailles versus The Marshall Plan.
 
BobKowalski said:
No it’s accepted. But equally I get bored with people asking why I want to overturn ‘a democratic vote’ as if democratic votes are never overturned or re-examined or re-evaluated if issues or circumstances change.

Brexiteers should have used the referendum result to fashion a Brexit policy that found favour with a majority on both sides of the argument. Instead a hard line was adopted and polarisation and division deepened. The Treaty of Versailles versus The Marshall Plan.
Click to expand...

The key is overturned after they have been honoured unless you can show me where we have voted before only for the result and democratic majority to be ignored?

Leave and vote to rejoin by all means.

Anything else is a big fat no from me I am afraid.
 
George Hannah said:
The EU's overriding political objective is to create the archetypal totalitarian nightmare state that Orwell warned about with his dying breath.
Click to expand...

Thats just youre oppinionated "out of the thin air" random BS. I could ask you what the indications would be for it, but since you refered to 1984 i would rather want to ask what indications there are that were described in 1984 aswell. Pardon me but i don't see any attempts at pro EU brainwashing, i do see plenty of UK media peddling outright lies about the EU. I believe Brexit with all it's lies and notably silly political languaghe (much sovereigity ja) aproaches more the issue's that Orwell warned us about that any element of the EU.

I don't think you understand Orwell well George.
 
blueinsa said:
The key is overturned after they have been honoured unless you can show me where we have voted before only for the result and democratic majority to be ignored?

Leave and vote to rejoin by all means.

Anything else is a big fat no from me I am afraid.
Click to expand...
We’ll just have to live with you saying a big fat no then.
I’m sure most of us will get over it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top