Another new Brexit thread

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mcfc1632 said:
Correct - bring that GE on
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Will the Tory party manifesto say
"We will abrogate an international peace treaty"?

Come to that, will the Queen next week say, "my government will abrogate an international peace treaty and put peace in Ireland at risk"?

Actually, knowing the fussiness of some about "semantics" perhaps the synonyms of abrogate might help:

repudiate, revoke, repeal, rescind, overturn, overrule, override, do away with, annul, cancel, break off, invalidate, nullify, void, negate, dissolve, countermand, veto, declare null and void, discontinue, renege on, go back on, backtrack on, reverse, retract, remove, withdraw, abolish, put an end to, get rid of, suspend, end, stop, quash, scrap, disaffirm, avoid, vacate, vitiate, axe, ditch, dump, chop, give something the chop, knock something on the head, deracinate.
 
George Hannah said:
The electorate is sovereign, they get to decide who governs them via a GE - that's how politics in this country should work. An opposition in flight from the voters because it knows it is heading for oblivion cannot be allowed to stall the democratic process.
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That process has given us a law that says no GE till 2022 and a PM without a majority. How can they be stalling the democratic process?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Hope some deal gets cobbled together. Can’t see it, sadly. More than happy to be proven wrong though. This madness needs to end.
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A deal to leave the EU is only phase one of the madness. We'll still have to negotiate future trade deals with major trading blocks, and individual countries across the globe.
The only way to bring a quick end to the madness is to revoke A50, but I can't see that happening.
 
East Level 2 said:
A deal to leave the EU is only phase one of the madness. We'll still have to negotiate future trade deals with major trading blocks, and individual countries across the globe.
The only way to bring a quick end to the madness is to revoke A50, but I can't see that happening.
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It will at least draw some sort of line under it, though. Failing to leave will cause such serious damage to social cohesion. We just need a workable deal. If that takes another year, or more, so be it. We’ve got to get this right.
 
Hammond suggesting a quickfire holding deal. We have a treaty with the EU to be in a customs area to match the CU until such time as we're ready to do our own deals and then we annul the treaty.

No point sticking out for freedom to do our own deals for little gain at the expense of the damage of no deal (for which there is no mandate and no popular support).

Can't see it flying really.
 
‘Spreadsheet’ Phil has weighed in with an article in the Telegraph. Essentially says the whole 'bucaneering Britain' Brexit narrative is based on a lie. The much touted free trade deals don't outweigh costs of barriers to trade with EU. Basically they will be too shallow to offset the harm caused by the much deeper access we have with our closest market. Staying within the EU economic zone is the only realistic option and also helps in the Irish border issue.

Nothing we didn’t already know. Shame Hammond didn’t say all this whilst in Govt instead of trying to appease the Tory right wing. Brexiteers will babble on about ‘sovereignty’ and the ‘will of the people’ or something. We will extend A50 for six months anyway and keep up the pointless arguing because the whole Brexit issue has driven us insane and we will continue to wait for Ireland/Brussels/whoever to ‘blink’ because ‘no deal’ something, something.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...p-hammond-suggests-new-brexit-plan-slates-do/
 
i kne albert davy said:
Ignored was probably the wrong terminology not enacted would be nearer the mark, I suppose we could also pretend the Prime Minister of the day didn't promise that Her Majesties Government would act on the result of a two question referendum ie stay in the European Union in what ever form or direction it decides to take( which we have no way of knowing) or Leave the European Union I certainly don't recall any caveats about some imaginary wonder deal only, on my voting form it simply said remain or leave.
So by all means have a second referendum peoples vote whatever to clarify things with two questions do you want to leave with the deal agreed with the European Union or just Leave nothing could be more certain then.
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There was no mention of deal on the ballot paper no, of course not.

However, do you seriously think that the Leave argument, never mind an actual winnable campaign would have go to off the ground if it’s only objective was to rip up 40 years worth of agreements? Of course it wouldn’t, that argument would have stayed in the fringes where it belongs

They sold a dream but now it’s reality. It’s money time. Sell the benefits of no-deal or stay as we are

I’ve never been a fan of a 2nd ref but I’d take that over a 1 issue GE any day. We could always sign the WA which is on the table and move on
 
BobKowalski said:
‘Spreadsheet’ Phil has weighed in with an article in the Telegraph. Essentially says the whole 'bucaneering Britain' Brexit narrative is based on a lie. The much touted free trade deals don't outweigh costs of barriers to trade with EU. Basically they will be too shallow to offset the harm caused by the much deeper access we have with our closest market. Staying within the EU economic zone is the only realistic option and also helps in the Irish border issue.

Nothing we didn’t already know. Shame Hammond didn’t say all this whilst in Govt instead of trying to appease the Tory right wing.
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To be fair, I think he did. He's consistently advocated staying in the single market and customs union.
 
Chris in London said:
It’s pretty clear that we are arriving fast at the point where the only options are no deal and no Brexit. I’ve put this point to a number of people who would prefer to leave with a deal but are faced with having to choose between two options they don’t like. Those who have said they would prefer a no deal Brexit to no Brexit at all have, to a man, said that they would do so because to do otherwise would undermine democracy.

Quite apart from whether it would undermine democracy, I find it interesting that not one person has said that there is any sort of economic benefit, or constitutional advantage, or increase of sovereignty or anything.

In other words, the supposed advantages of Brexit have vanished from view. All that’s left is that Leave won.
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To play devils advocate, there are those on here and in the country that sincerely believe that leaving a ‘failing project’ now will save us significant tears down the road. That is probably the only consistent and honestly held view that I have gleaned from those that support Brexit over the last three years. I don’t agree with it as I have not seen the evidence that the EU project will fail - I think the opposite that the world will become inevitably more globalised over the next 20 years and EU, USA, China and Russia will be the major players politically and economically. However I do recognise that many see this as a benefit of leaving.
 
Interesting take from the ex Chancellor Philip Hammond this morning on R4 who was advocating that we go for a customs alignment and single market arrangement to break the Brexit impasse. He admitted that the headbangers wouldn't like it but that the kind of Brexit being mooted by Johnson would do critical damage to the social fabrics of our society as well as the economy. In his words any deals with 3rd party countries (those outside the EU) would take years to negotiate involve us having to come out of common standards with the EU to facilitate them. But more importantly they would only represent a fraction of the trade that we would lose with our closest trading partner.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Hope some deal gets cobbled together. Can’t see it, sadly. More than happy to be proven wrong though. This madness needs to end.
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An old mentor at work once said to me ‘making no decision is far worse than making the wrong decision’. I accepted that what he said were true to a large extent and I can see this ending soon because people are just worn down by the whole thing. But is that right? Will we look our children in the face one day and say we let it past because we were bored of the whole thing?
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Oh dear yet another head in sand moment from you Bob!
Can i remind you yet again that many Labour constituencies voted to leave yet their MPs in Parliment repeatedly choose to ignore their voters and vote against every leave deal put before them. In fact their party policy is in fact now to remain by default lol ! Your could say that the majority of MPs as a collective are all at fault for saying one thing IE enacting article 50 then choosing to ignore what they have agreed to do. Many on the opposition benches have used brexit to try and point score in petty party politics. Corbyn was at it again last week, condemning proposals before he had even read them and coming out with all sorts of nonsense just to divert attention and score points. They all need sacking imo.
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Because ....... numbers.

This would have been passed with the Tory / DUP MP's voting for it. Which makes me believe that they actually want 'No Deal' ........ my many years on this planet have taught me that when a Conservative wants something it will be because its serves their purpose ..... not for the benefit of others.
 
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