Another new Brexit thread

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Who are there to represent us and our intentions, or at the very least pretend.

Otherwise we're just voting in Lords to act independently of their voters.

That depends on whether you think we live in a representative democracy or a direct one really

 

[Ban-jani]

Who are there to represent us and our intentions, or at the very least pretend.

Otherwise we're just voting in Lords to act independently of their voters.

To be fair they’re there to represent our best interests, not just be the community delegate who’s there to just speak on behalf of the community’s wishes... but there’s an element of goodwill that if you and I vote for an MP because we like his/her party’s manifesto, then really (s)he’d be best served to vote for the policies of said manifesto, when they enter the house.

As an example if I was elected as the MP for a leave voting area that’s largest employer, by a distance, was threatening to pull out of the UK, in the event of no deal, I’d tell them, in a public Q&A session, why I’ll be voting against no deal and have it out with them.

Obviously that’s not always possible and some MP’s have received threats so if not, then they should vote for what they believe gives their constituents the best chance to a good life, even if the constituents don’t agree.

They will then change their mind on it or vote the MP out next time.

The vast majority of MP’s have voted for at least one form of Brexit and therefore most have been willing to enact the referendum result. There just needed to be more clarity on our future relationship with Europe earlier or failing that, some patience from everyone.

 

[Metal Biker]

To be fair they’re there to represent our best interests, not just be the community delegate who’s there to just speak on behalf of the community’s wishes... but there’s an element of goodwill that if you and I vote for an MP because we like his/her party’s manifesto, then really (s)he’d be best served to vote for the policies of said manifesto, when they enter the house.

As an example if I was elected as the MP for a leave voting area that’s largest employer, by a distance, was threatening to pull out of the UK, in the event of no deal, I’d tell them, in a public Q&A session, why I’ll be voting against no deal and have it out with them.

Obviously that’s not always possible and some MP’s have received threats so if not, then they should vote for what they believe gives their constituents the best chance to a good life, even if the constituents don’t agree.

They will then change their mind on it or vote the MP out next time.

The vast majority of MP’s have voted for at least one form of Brexit and therefore most have been willing to enact the referendum result. There just needed to be more clarity on our future relationship with Europe earlier or failing that, some patience from everyone.

Which would be fine, but not if their best interests override our best interests, in that they feel their opinion as an MP carries more validity than that of their entire constituents. And many of them do, as we've seen.

 

[Ban-jani]

Which would be fine, but not if their best interests override our best interests, in that they feel their opinion as an MP carries more validity than that of their entire constituents. And many of them do, as we've seen.

The MP has to trust their opinion the most, otherwise they shouldn’t be an MP.

Sticking to manifestos is the correct way to go as it’s likely you were voted in on that but if there’s a specific issue that is likely to harm you constituents but they don’t believe it will, you have to stick to your own convictions.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Compromise; just the latest in a long list of brexit buzzwords intended to con the public yet again. "DEATH of DEMOCRACY, sob sob", trajectory sob, "will of the people". "if we dont leave there will be angry mobs of brexit vigilantes roaming the streets", "the worst thing in the universe is not leaving sob sob sob", "the country has been demanding brexit for years", rofl. "not allowed an opinion" yada yada , heard it all before and no doubt will again plus the odd flounce "ooh right to tell" interlude. If brexits compromised and only lied half the time....?

Lol.

 

[Coatigan]

What people on here, or the general public, want is largely irrelevant at the moment (indeed, most polls show a remain majority). It’s what Parliament can accept that matters, and that still seems very much in the balance. And that’s assuming a deal can even be reached with the EU, which isn’t a formality itself yet either. The only thing that seems almost certain is that we can’t/won’t leave the EU by the 31st October.

Bold call. Wouldnt surprise me if we did. Nothing would tbh. I don't think anything is ever truly off the table, with brexit.

 

[mcfc1632]

I hope you are keeping all your BM contributions - I'm looking forward to the book!

Good idea, I need to think of an appropriate title, perhaps something like:

'Diary of a missionary'

'Crusading - amongst the prejudiced masses'

'Teaching objectivity amongst the close-minded'

Something like that - ideas welcome;-)

Bet you attract a few snide replies to your post though.

 

[Rascal]

I literally can’t wait to no longer have to moderate this thread. Although sadly the divisions in society already manifest themselves in virtually every other thread in here, so the respite will be temporary I’m sure.

You will be waiting a long time mate. Brexit has tore the political landscape asunder and even when Brexit is concluded the divisions will remain as positions are now entrenched. The far right wont go away after Brexit, they will be emboldened by victory and the UK is already fractured and I can only see it becoming more fragmented because Nationalism has been unleashed.

The misguided Brexit at any cost people have brought Patriotism to the table, but its Patriotism under the guise of Nationalism. There is nothing wrong with patriotism per se, but Nationalism gives a feeling that one’s country is superior to another in every aspect and hence it is often described as the worst enemy of peace according to the great George Orwell. On the other hand patriotism does not pave the way for enmity towards other nations but on the other hand strengthen the admiration towards one’s own country. This is the difference between Nationalism and Patriotism.

Patriotism is rooted in affection whereas Nationalism is rooted in rivalry and hatred. It can be said that Patriotism works from the base of peace. On the other hand Nationalism has militancy as substratum and it works from the base of enmity.

Brexit being a success will justify the existence of the likes of Britain First, the EDL and DFLA, and i doubt very much Brexit will mean we see the end of Farage and his Brexit Party and the odious UKIP and Gerald Batten because to the winner comes the spoils of war. Patriotism is considered a common property and is construed equal all over the world, it was a basic premise of the Labour Party , a simplistic love of the country by the working class who shed blood and tears for it through countless wars. On the other hand a Nationalist considers that the people (our people) belonging to our own country alone are important. Belonging to the UK I fear will become a far narrower concept. Patriotism expresses the love of an individual towards his country in a passive way. Nationalism is on the other hand aggressive in its concept and the winners will have that justification to further their Nationalistic expression. We will see a rise in the notion that we have to take care in our won first and foremost, it is already widespread and by our own the Nationalists have a very narrow view based on colour and creed.

There is also the possibility expressed through the desire for rebirth of the Commonwealth to return to the days of Imperialism. A dominant UK at the heart of a great empire, I believe that to be nostalgic nonsense, but to the Nationalist its an expression of innate superiority of the values of our country over others.

As I have said many times, I have no issue with BREXIT, but I do have a huge issue with how it is being achieved and the forces that have been mobilised to help achieve it.

 

[Ric]

Bold call. Wouldnt surprise me if we did. Nothing would tbh. I don't think anything is ever truly off the table, with brexit.

It just seems highly improbable to me that the minutae of a deal can be thrashed out in the next two and a half weeks, agreed by all 27 members and Parliament. Maybe a brief extension will be arranged if the broad framework of a deal is in place though.

 

[Coatigan]

To be fair they’re there to represent our best interests, not just be the community delegate who’s there to just speak on behalf of the community’s wishes... but there’s an element of goodwill that if you and I vote for an MP because we like his/her party’s manifesto, then really (s)he’d be best served to vote for the policies of said manifesto, when they enter the house.

As an example if I was elected as the MP for a leave voting area that’s largest employer, by a distance, was threatening to pull out of the UK, in the event of no deal, I’d tell them, in a public Q&A session, why I’ll be voting against no deal and have it out with them.

Obviously that’s not always possible and some MP’s have received threats so if not, then they should vote for what they believe gives their constituents the best chance to a good life, even if the constituents don’t agree.

They will then change their mind on it or vote the MP out next time.

The vast majority of MP’s have voted for at least one form of Brexit and therefore most have been willing to enact the referendum result. There just needed to be more clarity on our future relationship with Europe earlier or failing that, some patience from everyone.

That is quite well put. Shades of grey, the whole thing (apart from the extremes). Prople forget that parliament isn't there to represent 17.4m people (who themselves for the best part can't agree how they think they should be represented) but over 66m people, across 4 countries. And their short term and long term situations. Enduring in the face of the pressure created by the rhetoric and the media, and being patient, takes nerve. And i'd hope we could trust the public to comprehend the complexities a bit more.

Not advocating the Breferendum result should be ignored, never have, but it has never been as simple as 'jus getton with it!'. Only the ploar single issue lot will see it that way.

 

[Gabriel]

I literally can’t wait to no longer have to moderate this thread. Although sadly the divisions in society already manifest themselves in virtually every other thread in here, so the respite will be temporary I’m sure.

Hear, hear. The divisions on these threads and the squabbling over, quite frankly, petty points has me genuinely despairing for the future of the country; dreadful split infinitive, by the way...
;-)

 

[Ric]

Hear, hear. The divisions on these threads and the squabbling over, quite frankly, petty points has me genuinely despairing for the future of the country; dreadful split infinitive, by the way...
;-)

Ha, fair point. It was late, in my defence ;)

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Absolutely not. There's simply not enough time. I do hope that these murmurs of deals potentially being struck and accepted by BoJo, Varadkar and supported by the EU, would grant a slight extension without any means of fuss and a deal can be concluded.

What matters to me is that we follow through with the (vague) notion of leaving the EU. Once we leave, we can start the discussions on trade. We must stop looking backwards. I've accepted I won't get the "leave" I initially wanted, so as to appease the concerns of remainers. All I ask is that you do the same. COntinue the cause to rejoin, but accept that remain is dead. I know you won't accept this notion, but it is the compromise myself, and I feel many others on the leave side, are asking for.

Couple of points

1) Who the fuck is BoJo?
2) What are we going to do for 5 years whilst we sort a trade deal and why after all the grief we have created should the Eu give us one?

 

[Rascal]

Couple of points

1) Who the fuck is BoJo?

Good point, is he is a clown?

 

[Metal Biker]

Couple of points

1) Who the fuck is BoJo?
2) What are we going to do for 5 years whilst we sort a trade deal and why after all the grief we have created should the Eu give us one?

1) Boris Johnson, I thought that was obvious? It's been one of his nicknames for years (aside from buffoon)

2) Continue trading during the agreed upon transition period whilst we negotiate with the EU, which states it wants to continue trading with us, and reach a new deal like any other trade partner has done.

What makes you think our relationship with the EU will be rosy if we remained, after all the grief we have created for them? (your words)

 

[Rascal]

1) Boris Johnson,

That's better, don't humanise the callous ****.

 

[Metal Biker]

That's better, don't humanise the callous ****.

It's just quicker to type, more than anything.

I'm also not in the game of dehumanising people even if I disagree with their opinions and ethics.
(not unless they've tried to do the same to me first)

 

[Ric]

It's just quicker to type, more than anything.

I'm also not in the game of dehumanising people even if I disagree with their opinions and ethics.
(not unless they've tried to do the same to me first)

To be fair, I don’t think calling him by his actual name is really dehumanising him.

 

[Metal Biker]

To be fair, I don’t think calling him by his actual name is really dehumanising him.

But calling him BoJo, like I did initially, must be questioned?

 

[BobKowalski]

But calling him BoJo, like I did initially, must be questioned?

Yes. He’s not a cuddly toy.