Another new Brexit thread

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why do brexits think remainers should welcome any deal at all, just because the pantomime "no-deal" dragon is dead? Any deal will leave the vast majority worse off, that's the whole point of brexit Much closer integration and a move towards a federal europe, as an insurance against a far-right night-mare is the ideal outcome for the vast majority. With fptp, there is no chance of healing the split between left and right, good for one means bad for the other, always been like that, brexit has brought it into harsh reality. A referendum with every outcome understood and agreed beforehand is the absolute minimum, with third-party over-sight just to reassure us there would not be any "tinkering" with the truth like the last one. Obviously brexits will fight to the death to avoid a ref. "for the sake democracy" but really they know they will lose, and if it was anyone but corbyn in oppo, badly.
 
Does anyone actually know the details of what’s on offer yet. Was away for the weekend and am really reluctant to catch up as I’m guessing nothing has changed, judging by the last couple of pages.

It sounds to me that any deal getting through involves pushing the DUP under the bus and putting the Customs checks down the Irish Sea.

Still mightn’t get through the House of Commons.

Is that not where we were with May.
Except she needed the DUP.
 
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meltonblue said:
If it is a customs border in the Irish Sea then I can’t see it getting through parliament, I’m not sure it will get better conservative support than Mays did (I assume she’ll vote against it...)
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I’m almost certain she’ll vote for it. As with the majority of her colleagues, the preservation of the Conservative Party, rather than the wellbeing of the country as a whole, is the overwhelming priority here.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
Does any actually know the details of what’s on offer yet. Was away for the weekend and am really reluctant to catch up as I’m guessing nothing has changed, judging by the last couple of pages.

It sounds to me that any deal getting through involves pushing the DUP under the bus and putting the Customs checks down the Irish Sea.

Still mightn’t get through the House of Commons.

Is that not where we were with May.
Except she needed the DUP.
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Customs checks in the Irish Sea, is the supposed deal, correct.

It’s a little harder than May’s deal and pushes NI further away from the rest of the UK. I think it’ll be tight to get through Parliament, if indeed it is signed off and brought forward.

The depressing thing for us is that this was offered in 2016, by the EU and May said no. Since then we’ve seen billions wasted, the pound slump and our economy slow, to arrive at the same conclusion.
 
BobKowalski said:
Adopt the Euro I guess. Currently RoI and NI run separate currencies within an ‘all Ireland’ economy so again the blueprint is there. If in NI we manage to put together a ‘two customs in one territory’ policy with custom rules determined by which market the goods are destined for then its application could work in Scotland and Wales. It’s application could be smoother given there is no historic tension (well not for a few hundred years) at the Scots/English border.

I’ve no idea if any of these new proposals for NI are going to fly but if they do then I can’t help thinking we are actively undermining our own Union rather the European one. The law of unintended consequences.
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What's not realised about the dual currency here is that the border counties on both sides accept both currencies, that's why it works.
 
Ric said:
I’m almost certain she’ll vote for it. As with the majority of her colleagues, the preservation of the Conservative Party, rather than the wellbeing of the country as a whole, is the overwhelming priority here.
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Depressingly I think you might be right. Im assuming they’ll at least drop “unionist” from their title...
 
Ban-jani said:
Customs checks in the Irish Sea, is the supposed deal, correct.

It’s a little harder than May’s deal and pushes NI further away from the rest of the UK. I think it’ll be tight to get through Parliament, if indeed it is signed off and brought forward.

The depressing thing for us is that this was offered in 2016, by the EU and May said no. Since then we’ve seen billions wasted, the pound slump and our economy slow, to arrive at the same conclusion.
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Equally depressing is the fact that this will/already is being portrayed as a triumph for Johnson, and that the EU wilted in the face of a no-deal scenario, when in reality the precise opposite has actually happened.
 
George Hannah said:
“With the departure of Great Britain, a potential competitor will of course emerge for us.
That is to say, in addition to China and the United States of America, there will be Great Britain as well.”
Angela Merkel

No subtlety there - the lines are being drawn.
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But by whom?

"During Theresa May’s premiership, Downing Street repeated that it was leaving the EU but not leaving Europe and would remain close allies with the Continent.

Central to that approach was Mrs May’s commitment to a “level playing field” after Brexit, which would have kept the UK aligned to EU competition and tax rules as well as social and environmental protections.

But Mr Johnson scrapped the commitment earlier this month, signalling the UK will become a direct competitor with the EU as soon as it leaves the bloc."
 
adrianr said:
In well over 10k posts on here I've never used the ignore feature once. Finally made an exception. This thread has about half as many posts and sometimes the carry on doesn't make quite as much sense, but it's undeniably better. If I had to read "Bit behind so just catching up" one more fucking time I was going to lose it. Felt like you ended up reading the thread twice. Tedious enough reading the fucker once!
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Are you talking about the expert negotiator without a clue? He's been on ignore for a long time, bar when I know from others responses that he's said something particularly unbelievable and hilarious.
 
Ric said:
Equally depressing is the fact that this will/already is being portrayed as a triumph for Johnson, and that the EU wilted in the face of a no-deal scenario, when in reality the precise opposite has actually happened.
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We have a poster on the previous page claiming that now.

How, in a time when we have instant 24 hour news and social media, can the truth be distorted so much?
 
Ric said:
Equally depressing is the fact that this will/already is being portrayed as a triumph for Johnson, and that the EU wilted in the face of a no-deal scenario, when in reality the precise opposite has actually happened.
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Without knowing the full details I’m reluctant to laugh about it, but really!

If we were only threatened with no deal or this three years ago, we’d have happily caved in then.

Could have saved a lot of bother.

I suppose say nothing until it gets through HoC first.
 
If as well as the customs deal, NI is also supposed to be in regulatory alignment with the EU how is the chlorinated chicken ( and any other goods that don't comply with EU regs) going to be allowed into NI in any UK future trade deals?
And if not how can NI be included in such trade deals?
I'm confused Gary.
 
It is understood that the negotiating teams have agreed in principle that there will be a customs border down the Irish Sea. A similar arrangement was rejected by Theresa May as a deal that no British prime minister could accept.

Please, someone, anyone, just revoke the ****!
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s absolutely laughable you continue to trot this line out.

1. The initial details of the deal are of a proposal the EU already offered but May said she couldn’t go for, as it compromised the DUP’s wishes

2. Johnson’s plan A was rejected and left him desperate

3. The Benn Act means that the threat of no deal is basically zero, as it needs to get through Parliament first

4. No deal was never a threat, Barnier called Raab’s bluff on it 18 months - 2 years ago

All that has happened is that Johnson has picked one of the 15 or so options the EU gave, as an agreement, way back in 2016.

Furthermore, the “good will” and “none issue” you said about the Irish border have made it a full house of things you’ve been incorrect about.
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Bless;-)
 
George Hannah said:
“With the departure of Great Britain, a potential competitor will of course emerge for us.
That is to say, in addition to China and the United States of America, there will be Great Britain as well.”
Angela Merkel

No subtlety there - the lines are being drawn.
Click to expand...

Extremely frank. And she is talking in geo political terms not just economic. There will be a degradation in our relationship with the E27 countries like cooperation on security and other matters. Data sharing is also going to be problematic. And when 27 foreign ministers are sitting round the table discussing issues like Turkey and Syria - where we have troops - we wil not be there.

A loss for both sides in my opinion.
 
journolud said:
Well I’m off to sleep now, I expect it will be all sunny uplands by the time I wake up. Or something like that.
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you’ll be awoken by the sound of spitfires with trails of British colours filling the sky.
your next door neighbour will bring you some eggs and milk.
You will turn on your tv in black and white , showing the royals waving to a sea of cheering people.
You will be paid in shillings.
kids up chimneys everywhere and not a brown face in sight.
Everything will be glorious.
Rule Britannia!

Brexit means Brexit.
 
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