Another new Brexit thread

[BobKowalski]

Which once again is a COMPLETELY shit and idiotic idea.

How on EARTH are we expected to agree the best deal with the EU if we unilaterally tie ourselves to either accepting whatever shite the EU deem to throw or, or alternatively being locked in forever? What a stupid thing to do.

This is s serious question, Ric. If we rule out no deal then it immediately becomes in the EU's best interest to give us a shitty deal. Either we accept it (shit for us, great for them) or we stay tied to EU rules for even longer (shit for us, great for them).

Can you not see this? The Letwin option stitches us up a kipper. I suspect this is his intention actually, only some people are too daft to realise it.

I think if anyone seriously believes we ever were or ever will be interested in a no deal Brexit hasn’t been paying attention. Selling off NI was preferable than a no deal Brexit.

After three years we have accepted the divorce bill, ECJ jurisdiction over citizens rights and an internal customs border within our own bloody Union. Three years. Might as well have accepted the EU’s opening offer, saved ourselves the last two and half years and spent it in the pub.

So given we have the experience of the last three years to guide us what sort of future deal do people on here think we are going to get?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

As I understand it, it would mean Parliament withhold approval of Johnson’s deal until the legislation to actually enact it was safely passed. Just safeguards against the Benn Act being rendered redundant by the deal passing tomorrow.

How does that stop them winning an election with a majority and repealing the Benn act and still using no deal as a threat in the FTA negotiations.

 

[hilts]

I think if anyone seriously believes we ever were or ever will be interested in a no deal Brexit hasn’t been paying attention. Selling off NI was preferable than a no deal Brexit.

After three years we have accepted the divorce bill, ECJ jurisdiction over citizens rights and an internal customs border within our own bloody Union. Three years. Might as well have accepted the EU’s opening offer, saved ourselves the last two and half years and spent it in the pub.

So given we have the experience of the last three years to guide us what sort of future deal do people on here think we are going to get?

I’m hoping parliament fucks it off for electioneering purposes as per usual and France votes against an extension. Unfortunately despite some people’s opinion the EU do seem rather keen to make sure we stay in.

 

[Coatigan]

Im going to try and not talk SNP in this thread and keep it for the SNP thread they have.

Sure. Apart from, you keep bringing them up.

I thought it a valid point, hence i responded further.

 

[Ric]

Pretty sure we have things like general elections where god forbid people can vote out a government who say for instance shit on workers rights. You usually post a bit more sensibly but saying the deal erodes workers rights is a bit Untruthful and your second statement that we will all be worse off is a tad dodgy as well.

This brexit thread gets us all, on this trajectory you will be thread banning yourself come Sunday:-)

Ha, I feel like thread banning myself on a daily basis tbh.

The deal per se doesn’t erode workers rights of course, but I think it’s legitimate that many have deep concerns in that area post-Brexit. Maybe I worded it clumsily though.

As for people bring worse off after we leave the EU, that’s the prediction of every economic forecast I’ve seen. Happy to be pointed in the direction of those forecasts suggesting that we’ll all benefit financially from Brexit though.

 

[Ric]

How does that stop them winning an election with a majority and repealing the Benn act and still using no deal as a threat in the FTA negotiations.

I don’t think it’s watertight against every scenario. It’s better than nothing though I guess.

 

[Ric]

Unfortunately despite some people’s opinion the EU do seem rather keen to make sure we stay in.

I dunno, I get the impression that they’re as tired of this as many in this country now and are happy for us to go. Especially on a deal that is seemingly favourable to them.

 

[FlemishDuck]

Ha, as soon as Brexit is done, I’m sure someone will start a new Mancini thread just to ensure that we remain as polarised as ever.

Wouldn't it be "done" kind of done? I mean, afaik the matter of the Irish backstop would come back up for negotiations in a year right?

 

[hilts]

Ha, I feel like thread banning myself on a daily basis tbh.

The deal per se doesn’t erode workers rights of course, but I think it’s legitimate that many have deep concerns in that area post-Brexit. Maybe I worded it clumsily though.

As for people bring worse off after we leave the EU, that’s the prediction of every economic forecast I’ve seen. Happy to be pointed in the direction of those forecasts suggesting that we’ll all benefit financially from Brexit though.

It is the prediction of all either way that is incorrect, I think financially a lot will be somewhat worse off not all though.

 

[mcfc1632]

In simple terms because it gets rid of the backstop. Remember what the backstop meant:

If at the end of the transition period, no trade deal had been agreed, then the backstop would kick in and critically we would not be able to leave it without the consent of the EU. We'd be trapped and signed up to EU rules and "level playing field" conditions - removing our ability to compete more effectively - potentially forever, and unable to get out of it.

The unfettered backstop is a ruinous trap for the UK

Why do you and others still have to explain that fact

That alone means that this deal is better because it gets rid of the backstop

 

[robbieh]

I dunno, I get the impression that they’re as tired of this as many in this country now and are happy for us to go. Especially on a deal that is seemingly favourable to them.

I'd say that the Europeans didn't want us to leave but are as bored as we are and therefore just want us to fuck off asap.

 

[Rascal]

From a purely political standpoint, with a GE close, it might well serve the Labour Party to whip all their MPs to vote for Johnson's deal. It passes and it is Johnson's deal and Labour have kept their manifesto promise. The rebels would then be the Tories who oppose, they become the bad guys.

Under that scenario, Labour can claim to have enabled Brexit, reclaim the working class vote taken by the BXP in the North and marginalise the Tories in those seats. In a forthcoming a GE the Labour Party have already been talking about policy, the Tories have been that caught up in Brexit we have only heard some vague promises from them.

Labour march to a stunning election victory having reclaimed the Patriotic banner from the Nationalistic Tories and the sun shines on Britain as the Red flags are unfurled and raised high and proud. The trumpets herald a new dawn of Socialism and the country is saved from the hard right maniacs. Corbyn is installed in number 10, McDonnell introduces an emergency budget and the working class triumph over the capitalists.

I feel like Lenin today, inspired by the prospect of a Socialist future and an International order of Socialist states feeding the poor, housing the homeless, healing the sick and riding injustice and prejudice from humanity.

I might just burst into song :)

 

[George Hannah]

.... Happy to be pointed in the direction of those forecasts suggesting that we’ll all benefit financially from Brexit though.

Look to the wealthy denizens of the sumptious Bernese Oberland for a glimpse into our unfettered future.

 

[hilts]

I dunno, I get the impression that they’re as tired of this as many in this country now and are happy for us to go. Especially on a deal that is seemingly favourable to them.

They don’t help help themselves literally the minute the deal was announced we had

EU - this is it no more delays(sensible thing to say to push parliament along) followed by maybe we could extend(you daft twats)

Tories - we are happy this deal delivers and look forward to productive trade discussions(sensible thing try and get parliament to vote it in) followed by its okay ERG trade discussions go bump nudge nudge no deal(you daft twats)

It beggars belief how for over 3 years politicians don’t know when it’s best to just say sod all.

 

[hilts]

I'd say that the Europeans didn't want us to leave but are as bored as we are and therefore just want us to fuck off asap.

Why do they keep talking to us then? This is a remainer fantasy I’m afraid.

 

[jay_mcfc]

From a purely political standpoint, with a GE close, it might well serve the Labour Party to whip all their MPs to vote for Johnson's deal. It passes and it is Johnson's deal and Labour have kept their manifesto promise. The rebels would then be the Tories who oppose, they become the bad guys.

Under that scenario, Labour can claim to have enabled Brexit, reclaim the working class vote taken by the BXP in the North and marginalise the Tories in those seats. In a forthcoming a GE the Labour Party have already been talking about policy, the Tories have been that caught up in Brexit we have only heard some vague promises from them.

Labour march to a stunning election victory having reclaimed the Patriotic banner from the Nationalistic Tories and the sun shines on Britain as the Red flags are unfurled and raised high and proud. The trumpets herald a new dawn of Socialism and the country is saved from the hard right maniacs. Corbyn is installed in number 10, McDonnell introduces an emergency budget and the working class triumph over the capitalists.

I feel like Lenin today, inspired by the prospect of a Socialist future and an International order of Socialist states feeding the poor, housing the homeless, healing the sick and riding injustice and prejudice from humanity.

I might just burst into song :)

Nice try, Comrade. But Labour voting in favour of this will destroy them. They won't get back the vote from northern towns with Corbyn as leader.

 

[Ric]

Nice try, Comrade. But Labour voting in favour of this will destroy them. They won't get back the vote from northern towns with Corbyn as leader.

Labour are in big trouble either way I suspect, but backing Johnson’s deal would absolutely decimate their core support. It’d be political suicide.

 

[SWP's back]

Watching Have I got news for you, imagine being so far into the establishment one of the family can be the pm and the dad, sister and brother can all have different views and opinions.

If my sister was pm , it would just be wow wow wow all the way.

Not at all, it anything it’s rather healthy.

 

[hilts]

From a purely political standpoint, with a GE close, it might well serve the Labour Party to whip all their MPs to vote for Johnson's deal. It passes and it is Johnson's deal and Labour have kept their manifesto promise. The rebels would then be the Tories who oppose, they become the bad guys.

Under that scenario, Labour can claim to have enabled Brexit, reclaim the working class vote taken by the BXP in the North and marginalise the Tories in those seats. In a forthcoming a GE the Labour Party have already been talking about policy, the Tories have been that caught up in Brexit we have only heard some vague promises from them.

Labour march to a stunning election victory having reclaimed the Patriotic banner from the Nationalistic Tories and the sun shines on Britain as the Red flags are unfurled and raised high and proud. The trumpets herald a new dawn of Socialism and the country is saved from the hard right maniacs. Corbyn is installed in number 10, McDonnell introduces an emergency budget and the working class triumph over the capitalists.

I feel like Lenin today, inspired by the prospect of a Socialist future and an International order of Socialist states feeding the poor, housing the homeless, healing the sick and riding injustice and prejudice from humanity.

I might just burst into song :)

labours problem has always been how do they not piss of leavers or remainers and lose votes. They still haven’t realised this is not possible which is bizarre really. The Lib Dem’s for instance have no such problem their vote was small so a grab for half the voters makes sense. Personally I think they should have gone all in on revoke in a general election.

 

[purplenose]

From a purely political standpoint, with a GE close, it might well serve the Labour Party to whip all their MPs to vote for Johnson's deal. It passes and it is Johnson's deal and Labour have kept their manifesto promise. The rebels would then be the Tories who oppose, they become the bad guys.

Under that scenario, Labour can claim to have enabled Brexit, reclaim the working class vote taken by the BXP in the North and marginalise the Tories in those seats. In a forthcoming a GE the Labour Party have already been talking about policy, the Tories have been that caught up in Brexit we have only heard some vague promises from them.

Labour march to a stunning election victory having reclaimed the Patriotic banner from the Nationalistic Tories and the sun shines on Britain as the Red flags are unfurled and raised high and proud. The trumpets herald a new dawn of Socialism and the country is saved from the hard right maniacs. Corbyn is installed in number 10, McDonnell introduces an emergency budget and the working class triumph over the capitalists.

I feel like Lenin today, inspired by the prospect of a Socialist future and an International order of Socialist states feeding the poor, housing the homeless, healing the sick and riding injustice and prejudice from humanity.

I might just burst into song :)

Beer Drugs or on a promise...come on spill.