Another new Brexit thread

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M18CTID said:
Changed his mind.....lied like fuck.....or maybe he did that thing that many would deem sensible and compromised when there were no other viable options to break the impasse?

The main issue anyone should have on this is that it's not gone down well with the unionists and ideally we needed something that all sides in NI are in agreement with. Calling Johnson out as a liar because he's, admittedly, backtracked on what he said last year is rather amusing when it comes from some posters who are prepared to blow smoke up the arse of the leader of the Labour Party despite the fact that said leader has performed the biggest U-turn of the fucking lot when it comes to his stance on the EU.
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You seem to be misguided in thinking that I believe Corbyn is the saviour of the United Kingdom, I don't think he is.
 
aguerrrroooooooooooo said:
I didn't know that ;)

I still think it's a valid question though. If I change my mind on such an absolute statement I reckon I'd be able to given a reason for it
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In simple terms because it gets rid of the backstop. Remember what the backstop meant:

If at the end of the transition period, no trade deal had been agreed, then the backstop would kick in and critically we would not be able to leave it without the consent of the EU. We'd be trapped and signed up to EU rules and "level playing field" conditions - removing our ability to compete more effectively - potentially forever, and unable to get out of it.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Yes.

You seem to have completely ignored the damage this paralysis is causing and the corresponding gain achieved by getting something done.
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How am I ignoring anything. Where did I say that? You're ignoring my question about the 'human being' running this whole thing. All you come back with is the usual leaver party brainwashed line of 'get it done'. No lets not get it done if it's a shit deal! By all means if it's a great deal the brilliant, lets go, but my question was do you honestly believe it is going to be a great deal with the lying toe rag Johnson pulling the strings and bottling it and doing what ever the EU wants to get a deal just so he can say 'look how great I am getting a deal done'.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Oh dear ..... being a Conservative you wouldn't understand how the democratic process works ....

I think you'll find that all member states will have a say on wether an extension is granted ... not just one individual who doesn't hold a vote anyway
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Haha, do you somehow think that by calling me a conservative you are insulting me!? I'm a fan of no political party, i can just spot a complete Dud when i see one, and without doubt Corbyn is a complete and utter failure. You must try harder !
 
M18CTID said:
Changed his mind.....lied like fuck.....or maybe he did that thing that many would deem sensible and compromised when there were no other viable options to break the impasse?
.
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That's one take on it,another could be that he conceded first.
The point is that most people in GB don't care about NI and so a foreign border in the middle of the UK doesn't bother them, that's why he did it.
But the long term implications for the Union could be profound. Whether he cares about that is anyone's guess.
 
Chippy_boy said:
In simple terms because it gets rid of the backstop. Remember what the backstop meant:

If at the end of the transition period, no trade deal had been agreed, then the backstop would kick in and critically we would not be able to leave it without the consent of the EU. We'd be trapped and signed up to EU rules potentially forever, unable to get out of it.
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This keeps being stated.
Wasn't there a clause that there needed to be 'best efforts' (or something similar) to resolve the situation? That could then be used to appeal to a court, presumably the ECJ. Fail on 'best efforts', and the backstop would be invalid.

Belief that it would tie things indefinitely is based on any individual's opinion that the EU would want to keep the UK tied and troublemaking - I don't think that would be the case, but I appreciate that some (and this isn't aimed at anyone particularly, although the Daily Express is obvious!) consider the EU to be a great Machiavellian evil who the ECJ would submit to at all times.
 
wattle said:
How am I ignoring anything. Where did I say that? You're ignoring my question about the 'human being' running this whole thing. All you come back with is the usual leaver party brainwashed line of 'get it done'. No lets not get it done if it's a shit deal! By all means if it's a great deal the brilliant, lets go, but my question was do you honestly believe it is going to be a great deal with the lying toe rag Johnson pulling the strings and bottling it and doing what ever the EU wants to get a deal just so he can say 'look how great I am getting a deal done'.
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You asked a question, I answered it. End of.
 
Len Rum said:
That's one take on it,another could be that he conceded first.
The point is that most people in GB don't care about NI and so a foreign border in the middle of the UK doesn't bother them, that's why he did it.
But the long term implications for the Union could be profound. Whether he cares about that is anyone's guess.
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He may care, if he thinks about it at all, but it will need to meet the Johnson Formula:

If Care << Greed for power, then disregard Care.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
This keeps being stated.
Wasn't there a clause that there needed to be 'best efforts' (or something similar) to resolve the situation? That could then be used to appeal to a court, presumably the ECJ. Fail on 'best efforts', and the backstop would be invalid.

Belief that it would tie things indefinitely is based on any individual's opinion that the EU would want to keep the UK tied and troublemaking - I don't think that would be the case, but I appreciate that some (and this isn't aimed at anyone particularly, although the Daily Express is obvious!) consider the EU to be a great Machiavellian evil who the ECJ would submit to at all times.
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We are now getting into a debate about whether the backstop was acceptable or not. That was not the question and it's somewhat irrelevant because the backstop is dead.
 
Chippy_boy said:
In simple terms because it gets rid of the backstop. Remember what the backstop meant:

If at the end of the transition period, no trade deal had been agreed, then the backstop would kick in and critically we would not be able to leave it without the consent of the EU. We'd be trapped and signed up to EU rules potentially forever, unable to get out of it.
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So why is it no longer cretinous as Mogg described it? Why has Johnson done a 180?

These were all known facts before the conservatives were hard line against it, so what has changed? I see only two possibilities

A) They believe this is their only chance at brexit and can't go back to May's deal (This seems most likely to me)

B) An unknown that is yet to be discovered.
 
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