Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
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Ric said:
Of course, Johnson and Cummings are master manipulators thinking a few steps ahead of us mere mortals! It’s ingenious the way they keep conspiring to lose key Parliamentary votes.
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They only need the one to go their way though ultimately and that's the danger for the no deal coalition.
 
George Hannah said:
I'm not wholly convinced BoJo likes his own deal very much now that the ERG can't sabotage it during passage and force a No Deal.
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Can fully understand why you’re reluctant to take Johnson at his word. Anyone looking objectively at his track record would undoubtedly draw the same conclusion.
 
blueinsa said:
They only need the one to go their way though ultimately and that's the danger for the no deal coalition.
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Possibly, although I think even “getting Brexit done” won’t fully erase their conduct over the last few months. These things tend to come back and bite you on the arse at some point.
 
mackenzie said:
Why did the Government not want the deal scrutinized??
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Because, like charging into submitting A50 so handily taught us, "just getting on with it" really is the best route forward. Little chance that rushing such a huge decision could cause 3 years of gridlock and misery a second time round surely?

If there's anything this whole charade has taught us, from Cameron resigning immediately, to the rush of A50, to deals being bought to vote with no time to scrutinize, it's that rushing is a fucking stupid Idea. We're trying to extract ourselves from an incredibly complex arrangement, and dumbing it down might sound great for campaign slogans, but only serves to further frustrate an already frustrated electorate when they start rightly asking, "If it's so simple, why haven't you done it?".
 
hilts said:
So what path would you go down? I don’t mean personal preference we know you’re a remainer. As a Labour man your in Jeremiah’s shoes what’s your policy?
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Policy is now (without a GE) to say that you can't ask for your party to support a deal that does not have consent in NI, and does away with the protections in May's last WA. But if Johnson is brave enough to see what the electorate thinks of his crappy deal, you'd support letting him put it to a referendum, as originally suggested by the Leader of the House, the hon member for the 19th century.

(I don't think that is Labour policy but who knows?)
 
Ric said:
Of course, Johnson and Cummings are master manipulators thinking a few steps ahead of us mere mortals! It’s ingenious the way they keep conspiring to lose key Parliamentary votes.
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Said this all along - Cummings reputation and judgement guarantees nowt - and as days and votes pass it becomes more tarnished. Is this 8 out of 8 votes he has lost now? Even OGS has a better track record FFS - at some point they will have to won up and agree that Cummings has to be binned
 
meltonblue said:
Even if that was the case though, there's no problem in that. People that voted to remain still wanting to remain is fine, in fact I'd expect most of them too, much like I'd expect most who voted leave to still want to leave. Whether Brexit is enacted or not has nothing to do with them - it is entirely out of their control. All they are doing is no different to anyone protesting any government decision they didn't agree or vote with either.

Everyone's ire should be directed solely at parliament as they are the ones that have had accountability for delivering and have failed.
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The Government has failed. It has failed to get parliamentary approval... Is it 4 times now? I've lost count tbh.

At what point do we stop banging our heads against the wall?
 
I've been elsewhere today. Did many MPs come up with the nonsense of "ending uncertainty"?
 
adrianr said:
Because, like charging into submitting A50 so handily taught us, "just getting on with it" really is the best route forward. Little chance that rushing such a huge decision could cause 3 years of gridlock and misery a second time round surely?

If there's anything this whole charade has taught us, from Cameron resigning immediately, to the rush of A50, to deals being bought to vote with no time to scrutinize, it's that rushing is a fucking stupid Idea. We're trying to extract ourselves from an incredibly complex arrangement, and dumbing it down might sound great for campaign slogans, but only serves to further frustrate an already frustrated electorate when they start rightly asking, "If it's so simple, why haven't you done it?".
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Well said. The mantra of “just getting on with it” is ludicrously simplistic. Some people seem to think that if MPs vote through the deal that is the end of it, rather than the reality of it being the beginning of rounds of tortuous negotiations.
 
Ric said:
Well said. The mantra of “just getting on with it” is ludicrously simplistic. Some people seem to think that if MPs vote through the deal that is the end of it, rather than the reality of it being the beginning of rounds of tortuous negotiations.
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Over 3 years Ric is not us rushing anything but wouldn't it be nice to get to the next phase before we are all dead?

Sorry @Vic if this has given you a hard on.
 
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