Another new Brexit thread

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I'm sure you all remember the 'meaningful vote', well now it seems the same folk are after a 'meaningful extension'. Lol.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Totally disagree with you
They are self serving and dont want BREXIT

Plenty voted for it, they were just unhappy with the unreasonable time frame. On top of that, has an Opposition(or anyone) voted for a key government policy without the economic forecasts being available?

In my opinion, it is unreasonable to expect Opposition parties to wave through policy without time to scrutinise, amend if necessary and without the figures to back up the Government’s optimism and beliefs

 

[Len Rum]

True, but the public and the media seem to be loving it, worked for trump, society seems all about slogan politics just now.

I blame twitter culture.

The media you say
Ah yes the Tory loving media.
Twas always thus.

 

[blueinsa]

Plenty voted for it, they were just unhappy with the unreasonable time frame. On top of that, has an Opposition(or anyone) voted for a key government policy without the economic forecasts being available?

In my opinion, it is unreasonable to expect Opposition parties to wave through policy without time to scrutinise, amend if necessary and without the figures to back up the Government’s optimism and beliefs

The deal is unamendable without the say so of Dublin and Brussels.

It is yet more frustrate and delay.

 

[Saddleworth2]

True, but the public and the media seem to be loving it, worked for trump, society seems all about slogan politics just now.

I blame twitter culture.

Nothing to do with Twitter mate. Much more to do with the Tory media which is an absolute disgrace.

 

[Blue Hefner]

That’s all I hear... Suggest, If, maybe,

it may happen or it may be scaremongering because the opposition don’t have a credible challenge... Corbyn will need a bloody big book down his trousers in a GE

Of course all we have is suggestions and predictions. But I would suggest if Workers’ Rights were not going to be changed to make the U.K. ‘competitive’(we will here that word a lot in the next few years) then why move them from the legally binding piece to the non binding piece?

And for those that ask why haven’t they done it in the last 10 years of Government. Easy - the first few they were in coalition, the next they had the Indy/EU refs to worry about and the last 3 years all they’ve been doing is Brexit

Once Johnson gets in again, and he will, he will be able to do what he and his more enthusiastic front bench want. They no longer have to worry about Labour and the Lib-Dems won’t do enough damage to them

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

So - your point appears to be a version of "The people are too stupid...."

Your only answer seems to be - because of this - we should simply Remain?

Only going off what the focus group said, being uninformed isn't being stupid so I'd appreciate you not trying to weaponise my posts to suit your agenda thanks.

 

[George Hannah]

Remainer wreckers still at it.Time for BoJo to activate his EU fifth columnists. No extension = No Deal or Revoke and my money us still on the latter.

 

[inbetween]

So labour need time to scrutinise a bill that they've already described as 'Terrible.'

If they have reached such a conclusion, which has been delivered in a very forthright fashion, why the scrutiny?

Some people may get the impression it's just a mischievous delaying exercise, surely not?

It's more than mischievous when Labour's 'alternative' is a second referendum on a vote on THIS terrible deal or remain!

 

[Blue Hefner]

The deal is unamendable without the say so of Dublin and Brussels.

It is yet more frustrate and delay.

OK. Amendments can be suggested and taken back. If, for example, a 2nd Ref was added I’m pretty sure the EU would agree

Take back control, and all that

 

[blueinsa]

OK. Amendments can be suggested and taken back. If, for example, a 2nd Ref was added I’m pretty sure the EU would agree

Take back control, and all that

2nd ref is simply not happening as there are not the numbers.

Shit or get off the pot.

They have got off so revoke the fucking thing today and lets have a GE that will be your de facto 2nd ref because it will be a straight fight between leave and remain.

Parliaments make up has to be changed one way or the other.

 

[Len Rum]

Or every amendment delays and frustrates because none of them will be agreed by Dublin or Brussels or our parliament.

You don't know that.
Every indication that the heavyweight amendments of customs union and second ref won't pass.
Have a proper debate and see what emerges at the end.
You might be pleasantly surprised.
Simples.

 

[inbetween]

They're finished .... Labour stood up last night and said that the WAB can pass but not without scrutiny and certainly not with the removal of the workers rights and consumer and environmental protections.

The offer was made to work with the Tories to get the bill through but they didn't accept .... because its not about the bill is it ... it was about the date and avoiding Eu anti tax avoidance legislation

Labour have simply protected their voters and have always said that they would honour Brexit as long as it delivered what was originally promised. We have to be honest with ourselves and admit where it finally ended up was a long way short of that.

Labour have not voted to protect anything, the legislation passed last night with considerable Labour support because even the DUP voted against it!

The timing vote was only won because of DUP and ex Tory moderate votes pushing it over the line.

Labour are irrelevant, they would vote against the Tories offering a free lunch.

 

[adrianr]

Remainer wreckers still at it.Time for BoJo to activate his EU fifth columnists. No extension = No Deal or Revoke and my money us still on the latter.

Don't know why. Revoking is far out of the equation right now. Only way that would come about is if the EU said no extension, you've got till the 31st to vonc and revoke or start making better no deal plans, which given how they've approached this so far seems unlikely.

I agree with recent commentary that we will see a short extension, and the bill will be passed over the next couple of weeks. The main spanner in this is how much truth there is in the story of Johnson and Cummings promising all things to all sides (let's be honest, chance of that are pretty high), and subsequently then how much the deal will wilt when examined properly (I'd say this is a pretty high chance, but I think worryingly people will suffer quite a lot of shit in the name of "getting it done").

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Richard burgon mp?!

 

[blueinsa]

You don't know that.
Every indication that the heavyweight amendments of customs union and second ref won't pass.
Have a proper debate and see what emerges at the end.
You might be pleasantly surprised.
Simples.

The EU and Dublin will have to reopen the treaty to agree on any MP amendments.

MP amendments wont get the approval in the house.

It isn't happening.

Simples.

 

[meltonblue]

There’s plenty in the bill that is domestic rather than EU policy that can be amended though.

 

[Saddleworth2]

The EU and Dublin will have to reopen the treaty to agree on any MP amendments.

MP amendments wont get the approval in the house.

It isn't happening.

Simples.

You are right. Scrutiny should be necessary to either accept or reject the deal though.

 

[blueinsa]

You are right. Scrutiny should be necessary to either accept or reject the deal though.

Its been rejected.

I have heard every single SNP, Lib Dem, DUP, Green and many Labour MP's say they will reject any deal the government brings.

Its a charade.

 

[blueparrot]

The EU and Dublin will have to reopen the treaty to agree on any MP amendments.

MP amendments wont get the approval in the house.

It isn't happening.

Simples.

For one, I think extending the implementation would get through and be accepted by the EU. Especially now we will be extending to January and will only have 10/11 months to implement. Sure there are other bits that would be waved through.