Blair was the best (least worst) leader you've ever had. By miles.
Pretty obvious those on the left of the party weren't his biggest fan. The rest of the party (and MUCH more importantly) the rest of the public, vastly prefer Blair's more centre ground politics. Which is the biggest reason why Corbyn is so desperately unpopular and Labour behind in the polls, when with a more moderate leader, you'd be MILES ahead.I think the fact you're a self-confessed Tory tells you that most people who share a lot of Labour party views (myself included) won't agree with that.
That's not to say that everything Blair did was wrong or there's nothing the current LP can learn from him.
Blair was the best Labour PM the tories could get in some ways. Like Heath was for Labour when he was in charge.Blair was the best (least worst) leader you've ever had. By miles.
Crow pie and over-boiled sprouts for our Jezza.He might get invited for Xmas Dinner.. it's good to help out a nearby pensioner during the cold weather
What is seedy about him, in your opinion? Seems to me he is incredibly unpopular amongst certain Labour voters because he has the temerity to be wealthy? I am not suggesting you think that, but I cannot imagine what you find "seedy"?At the time Blair was elected, he was actually acceptable to many Tory voters as a reasonable and far more competent and personable offer than most of their own.
After a few years in power, he grew too big a head and thought himself infallible. He now cuts a seedy (if seriously wealthy) figure as a man who fell badly from grace. He should remain under the stone where he was fortunate to be allowed shelter.
What is seedy about him, in your opinion? Seems to me he is incredibly unpopular amongst certain Labour voters because he has the temerity to be wealthy? I am not suggesting you think that, but I cannot imagine what you find "seedy"?
Pretty obvious those on the left of the party weren't his biggest fan. The rest of the party (and MUCH more importantly) the rest of the public, vastly prefer Blair's more centre ground politics. Which is the biggest reason why Corbyn is so desperately unpopular and Labour behind in the polls, when with a more moderate leader, you'd be MILES ahead.
Good post mate. Of course i am a Tory voter and would not vote for such, but I recognise fully where you are coming from and agree with you entirely about where Labour should position themselves if they are to have any actual chance of helping people, i.e. winning an election.I don't think it was just the left of the Labour Party who didn't like him. Plenty of people didn't like him and with the benefit of hindsight, more and more people are beginning to realise how much of a disaster some of his policies were. We now know that the boom-times he presided over were built on a house of cards, we now know the Iraq war he took us into were built on a pack of lies (and created a civil war that brought about ISIS), and we now know the means by which he financed so much of our public infrastructure (PFI) was a national scandal (thanks to the NAO).
The one thing that Blair did understand is that to get elected, the LP can't lurch too far to the left otherwise it's never going to win the seats in middle England it needs in order to form a majority. However, what he did was effectively move so far to the right that he threw the baby out with the bathwater whereby the Labour Party became a near pointless endeavour. Obviously, move too far to the left and the Labour Party becomes a pointless endeavour because it becomes unelectable. So for me, the Labour Party needs to lie somewhere in the middle of those two extremes but it also needs to have somebody with sheen and charisma to win the idiot vote (see Ed Miliband's failures) and there's plenty still in the party who do have that but sadly, their chances of becoming leader seem pretty remote right now.
Blair '97 - 13.5m votes
Blair '01 - 10.7m votes
Blair '05- 9.5m votes
Brown '10 - 8.5m votes
Milliband '15 - 9.3m votes
Corbyn '17 - 12.8m votes
But still less than May got after her party disastrously took us out of the EU. So it's kind of like celebrating scoring 3 but forgetting the other team scored 5.
Prior to the last election, Corbyn's unelectability was probably overstated (albeit still true) but even still, if he loses a second election - especially in the context of the political crisis we're in and 9/10 years of Conservative cuts, would you support him stepping aside to let someone else have a go?
Would be interested to hear from the other Corbyn fans on this too @Rascal
have always voted Labour apart from last Europeans when went Green.
What infuriates me about Corbyn is him being unable to see the benefits of a managed departure from his role. It doesn’t matter if you’re a fan of his or not, rightly or wrongly he alienates enough voters they’ll be prepared to vote for May, or Johnson in the near future. I don’t think a more moderate leader would have that effect. It’s a case of being principled and out of power and ineffective, or being willing to compromise and be in power. I know what I’d choose.
But still less than May got after her party disastrously took us out of the EU. So it's kind of like celebrating scoring 3 but forgetting the other team scored 5.
Prior to the last election, Corbyn's unelectability was probably overstated (albeit still true) but even still, if he loses a second election - especially in the context of the political crisis we're in and 9/10 years of Conservative cuts, would you support him stepping aside to let someone else have a go?
Would be interested to hear from the other Corbyn fans on this too @Rascal
I have posted before that I believe Corbyn was the necessary antidote to Blairism, he was needed to drag the party leftwards back to its traditional ground. The Labour party is not the party of Blairite neo-liberalism lite, it should be a party of Socialist Democracy. I voted for Blair, he was the only choice after the disastrous Thatcherite destruction of the country and he at least moved the Overton window away from the extreme right of Thatcher, but he did not go far enough and ended up mimicking much of Thatcherite ideology albeit with a larger emphasis on redistribution. He did some good, he also did some bad, but I supported him because it was the will of the membership and above all I am a democrat. Now the tables have turned and the left are in the ascendancy the Blairite factions have thrown their dummies out of the pram and no longer accept the democratic wishes of the membership.
I do believe Corbyn will stand down, but it has to be on his terms as he is the elected leader and if any Blairite attempted a coup they would I believe be trounced in a similar fashion to the rather pathetic Owen Smith. Corbyn has redefined the party and it was needed, it is more democratic and it reflects the wishes of the membership, the very people who will be on the ground doing the hard yards come election time.
The mistake I believe many make, is that they look at Corbyn through his overall electability as PM and not as the moderniser the Labour Party needed at that time. It is very much an internal matter and it has taken time and as much as it hurts to see a Tory government wreck the country it is better to stay true to the course now than alter it and allow another Blairite Labour party make next to no difference to the country when major changes are needed. That will take time and Corbyn will lead us into the next election, if he wins then great, he will stand down after a could of years, if he loses which is probable he will still have left the Labour Party in a far stronger position than it has been for a generation with a lot of very good MPs in place and a number of potential new leaders who will carry on the Socialist cause.
The Labour party is a better party now than it has been since the days of Atlee, its policies although still a work in progress are proving popular and the next Labour Party leader will take over a party in a better place, one rid of the Blairite influence and true to its roots. I lived through those long years of Thatcher destruction and I can wait a while longer for the Socialist future that will be a better future for each and everyone of you.
I have posted before that I believe Corbyn was the necessary antidote to Blairism, he was needed to drag the party leftwards back to its traditional ground. The Labour party is not the party of Blairite neo-liberalism lite, it should be a party of Socialist Democracy. I voted for Blair, he was the only choice after the disastrous Thatcherite destruction of the country and he at least moved the Overton window away from the extreme right of Thatcher, but he did not go far enough and ended up mimicking much of Thatcherite ideology albeit with a larger emphasis on redistribution. He did some good, he also did some bad, but I supported him because it was the will of the membership and above all I am a democrat. Now the tables have turned and the left are in the ascendancy the Blairite factions have thrown their dummies out of the pram and no longer accept the democratic wishes of the membership.
I do believe Corbyn will stand down, but it has to be on his terms as he is the elected leader and if any Blairite attempted a coup they would I believe be trounced in a similar fashion to the rather pathetic Owen Smith. Corbyn has redefined the party and it was needed, it is more democratic and it reflects the wishes of the membership, the very people who will be on the ground doing the hard yards come election time.
The mistake I believe many make, is that they look at Corbyn through his overall electability as PM and not as the moderniser the Labour Party needed at that time. It is very much an internal matter and it has taken time and as much as it hurts to see a Tory government wreck the country it is better to stay true to the course now than alter it and allow another Blairite Labour party make next to no difference to the country when major changes are needed. That will take time and Corbyn will lead us into the next election, if he wins then great, he will stand down after a could of years, if he loses which is probable he will still have left the Labour Party in a far stronger position than it has been for a generation with a lot of very good MPs in place and a number of potential new leaders who will carry on the Socialist cause.
The Labour party is a better party now than it has been since the days of Atlee, its policies although still a work in progress are proving popular and the next Labour Party leader will take over a party in a better place, one rid of the Blairite influence and true to its roots. I lived through those long years of Thatcher destruction and I can wait a while longer for the Socialist future that will be a better future for each and everyone of you.